$100 NLHE 6-max: Overshove or bet small vs bottom of range?

John A

John A

Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Total posts
6,492
Awards
3
Chips
37
Get max value vs. slowplayed Tx, scared AA/QQ/Kx? Or just bet small hoping to get calls from the bottom of his range?

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker Database Software.

NL Holdem $1(BB)
HERO ($130.75)
SB ($116.07)
BB ($60)
HJ ($86)
CO ($109.15)

Dealt to Hero 8:club: 8:spade:

HJ Folds, CO Folds, HERO Raises To $(3), SB Folds, BB Raises To $(9.5), HERO Calls $(7.5)

Flop ($20.0) T:heart: K:diamond: T:spade:
BB Checks, HERO Checks

Turn ($20.0) T:heart: K:diamond: T:spade: 8:diamond:
BB Checks, HERO Bets $6, BB Calls $6

River ($32.0) T:heart: K:diamond: T:spade: 8:diamond: 9:heart:
BB Checks, HERO $114.25 (allin)
 
N

nkat

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 31, 2016
Total posts
155
Chips
0
this would be an epic bluff line. Looks like you had a similar dilemma on the turn...

don't bet small on the turn and shove river.. two 3/4 size bets gets stacks in, maybe a better question with deeper stacks... in that case 3/4 then shove may be best..
 
Romario2223

Romario2223

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 17, 2013
Total posts
1,473
Awards
4
Chips
0
On the turn bet 70% of pot and bet pot on the river
 
TimovieMan

TimovieMan

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 16, 2016
Total posts
2,264
Chips
0
I quite like the line you took.

Bet small on the turn to induce a raise, when that doesn't come, overbet the river.
If he folds, he probably wasn't going to call any smaller bets either.
 
MattRyder

MattRyder

🍏 Tech That Works!
Platinum Level
Joined
Sep 12, 2013
Total posts
8,309
Awards
15
Chips
0
Why the shove on the river? He's only (maybe) calling that with a straight, and definitely calling it with a better boat (e.g. KK or T9s which he could easily have played the same way he played whatever he had). If he was playing T9 (unlikely but possible), his failed bluff pre-flop and your small bet on the turn wasn't sending him away.
 
S

Simplex

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 15, 2015
Total posts
131
Chips
0
Absolutely hate this line. I'm guessing the ridiculous small bet on the turn was to induce a check raise. I prob would have looked to get two decent streets of value or made a decent bet on the turn and made the "sheepish" bet on the river after more str8s connected with the board to try and induce the check raise then.

Occasionally, you can expect a call from a shove like this. AA or 10X that didn't boat up, or a str8 ( QJ). But this is a fairly small calling range, that may not even call. Think you miss way too much value with the shove. And occasionally a guy shows up with KK, K10, 10 9, 10 8, or pocket 9's and you get stacked. This maybe a good line for a 5c/10c game, but is less than ideal at higher levels.
 
John A

John A

Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Total posts
6,492
Awards
3
Chips
37
Absolutely hate this line. I'm guessing the ridiculous small bet on the turn was to induce a check raise. I prob would have looked to get two decent streets of value or made a decent bet on the turn and made the "sheepish" bet on the river after more str8s connected with the board to try and induce the check raise then.

Occasionally, you can expect a call from a shove like this. AA or 10X that didn't boat up, or a str8 ( QJ). But this is a fairly small calling range, that may not even call. Think you miss way too much value with the shove. And occasionally a guy shows up with KK, K10, 10 9, 10 8, or pocket 9's and you get stacked. This maybe a good line for a 5c/10c game, but is less than ideal at higher levels.

Yeah, so what is he calling with that he's checking that flop with? You do realize my opponent started w/ 60bbs right? :) My under bet was actually planning on a river over shove (or hoping for a turn CR) so if diamonds missed it would look like a missed draw. I'm just betting ~45 into a 32. So it's not like some massive over shove.
 
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Total posts
5,781
Chips
0
big bets generally against me usually means they have it.

i did miss an opportunity earlier to try this line ugh! i think it wouldve worked though. and so many people will make calling mistakes against the nuts so i do like it and i like your creativeness
 
J

jsh169

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Total posts
890
Awards
1
Chips
0
I probably bet small here, maybe if it was a diamond I may consider bigger bet, his range really looks like aq/aj/qq/jj or at best a weak king. That being said if he is holding a lot of those he is likely folding most of them to a small bet. Obviously everyone plays differently, but a broadway flop, I don't really see a good reason to slow play a ten here myself anyways, maybe I'm just crazy.
 
S

Snakester420

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 25, 2016
Total posts
117
Chips
0
Seems ok since BB is probably a weaker player who will call down wide since he has a short stack. However, I cannot name a single hand I would play the way villain did and call that riv. I would c-bet flop with QJ, most bdfd hands (including AQ and AJ of diamonds).

If I check flop with AQ or AJ of diamonds, I would lead the turn since I pick up equity and would like to choose my own price (and BTN check back range contains so much A high and pocket pairs that will be in a spot)

I would not count on villain slow playing 10x on flop unless I had some decent to solid reads. In this case, what hands can call? Kx that checked flop (KJs and K9s maybe, KQ probably bets, although I would not 3-bet any of these from BB...

So you want a hero call from QQ, JJ, or AA that checked flop as they probably should (especially JJ, QQ).
The more I think about it, the more I like it since villain will probably expect you to bet most Kx and Tx on the flop. Also you would bet flop with QJ most likely to rep the 10 since there are more 10x in your range than villain's.
So you are sort of repping 88 on the river which is really hard to put you on after betting 6 into 20 on the turn. Looks way bluffy, cant think of another value hand you play this way other than 88. The rest of your range is random bluffs like FD.

Kx should not overbet jam river in this spot, so if villain is decent he will not think you have Kx and he will be more inclined to call JJ and QQ.
Also, if he puts you on QJ here, he has serious blockers with JJ and QQ so he is way more inclined to call.

I love this line against a decent player who tries to put you on a range. Against a fish, you might get a hero call from a random A9dd that didn't bet flop... although JJ QQ and maybe AA and the main targets here IMO.

Hope this was solid analysis, I am trying to come up thru micros like everyone else on here. Any flaws pointed out in my though process would be much appreciated.
 
Q

QA77

Visionary
Bronze Level
Joined
Jan 30, 2017
Total posts
504
Awards
1
Chips
3
I think he folds a K with this overbet. You also lose to a lot of slow played hands. If I were to overbet, it would be smaller like $30.
 
Beanfacekilla

Beanfacekilla

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 29, 2012
Total posts
4,966
Awards
1
Chips
1
Get max value vs. slowplayed Tx, scared AA/QQ/Kx? Or just bet small hoping to get calls from the bottom of his range?

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker Database Software.

NL Holdem $1(BB)
HERO ($130.75)
SB ($116.07)
BB ($60)
HJ ($86)
CO ($109.15)

Dealt to Hero 8<font color='black'>♣</font> 8<font color='black'>♠</font>

HJ Folds, CO Folds, HERO Raises To $(3), SB Folds, BB Raises To $(9.5), HERO Calls $(7.5)

Flop ($20.0) T<font color='red'>♥</font> K<font color='red'>♦</font> T<font color='black'>♠</font>
BB Checks, HERO Checks

Turn ($20.0) T<font color='red'>♥</font> K<font color='red'>♦</font> T<font color='black'>♠</font> 8<font color='red'>♦</font>
BB Checks, HERO Bets $6, BB Calls $6

River ($32.0) T<font color='red'>♥</font> K<font color='red'>♦</font> T<font color='black'>♠</font> 8<font color='red'>♦</font> 9<font color='red'>♥</font>
BB Checks, HERO $114.25 (allin)


Have not read a single reply. Trying to be unbiased.


I bet way smaller here on the river. I probably bet like $25, +/-, and if this guy C/R me on the river, I fold prob. I feel like he is polarized to huge hands or not much. Your turn bet size probably keeps a bunch of gutters and stuff in there? It honestly feels like Kings full a bit? I'm not sure, but I bet 25 ish OTR as played.


It's actually a very good hand to post man! Great food for thought!

Edit: dang man just realized bet size isn't that big for dudes stack. Rats. This changes everything....

Second edit: bet smaller to leave him with some chips? He can make really had call then? Like PP and he might even hero ace high or something like A-Q? I think we can get paid by a wider range by betting smaller still.
 
Top