$100 NLHE 6-max: KK in 3bet Pot on A high Board

bw07507 · Jul 3, 2009

$100 NL HE 6-max: KK in 3bet Pot on A high Board

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 21/18/5.8

Ok, 360 hands on villain here. He folds to lots of 3bets (75%) and his 4bet range is 2.0. He also raises 30% of cbets (in non 3bet pots), but i dont have many hands in 3bet pots with him in my db. I dont see him ever raising AQ/AJ here so I think his range is basically TT or air. Seeing that he does raise quite a bit of cbets i decide to call down. Toughts?

Full Tilt, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

BTN: $69.40 (69.4 bb)
Hero (SB): $100 (100 bb)
BB: $101.50 (101.5 bb)
MP: $100 (100 bb)
CO: $100 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is SB with K

K

MP raises to $3.50, 2 folds, Hero raises to $13, BB folds, MP calls $9.50

Flop: ($27) T

A

2

(2 players)
Hero bets $15, MP raises to $45, Hero calls $30

Turn: ($117) 6

(2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $42 and is all-in, Hero calls $42 and is all-in

River: ($201) 8

(2 players, 2 are all-in)

F Paulsson · Jul 3, 2009

I play it the same. Most of the hands that beat you aren't going to be interested in blowing you out of the pot anyway (besides AQ,AJ, also TT), so the raise is most probably bullshit sufficiently often for you to play for stacks.

Skidmark · Jul 3, 2009

bw07507 said:
Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 21/18/5.8

Ok, 360 hands on villain here. He folds to lots of 3bets (75%) and his 4bet range is 2.0. He also raises 30% of cbets (in non 3bet pots), but i dont have many hands in 3bet pots with him in my db. I dont see him ever raising AQ/AJ here so I think his range is basically TT or air. Seeing that he does raise quite a bit of cbets i decide to call down. Toughts?

Full Tilt, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

BTN: $69.40 (69.4 bb)
Hero (SB): $100 (100 bb)
BB: $101.50 (101.5 bb)
MP: $100 (100 bb)
CO: $100 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is SB with K

K

MP raises to $3.50, 2 folds, Hero raises to $13, BB folds, MP calls $9.50

Flop: ($27) T

A

2

(2 players)
Hero bets $15, MP raises to $45, Hero calls $30

Turn: ($117) 6

(2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $42 and is all-in, Hero calls $42 and is all-in

River: ($201) 8

(2 players, 2 are all-in)

u said that he reraises 30 percent of the cbets which is a lot so why do you cbet with KK on an ace high flop u should be looking to get to showndown the cheapest way since he has lots of aces in his range and this is a way behind way ahead situation. Flop check raise (if he bets) and if called giving up is the best option imo.
and i think he has ace ten with ace of spades. Do we know?

F Paulsson · Jul 3, 2009

Skidmark said:
u said that he reraises 30 percent of the cbets which is a lot so why do you cbet with KK on an ace high flop u should be looking to get to showndown the cheapest way since he has lots of aces in his range and this is a way behind way ahead situation. Flop check raise (if he bets) and if called giving up is the best option imo.
and i think he has ace ten with ace of spades. Do we know?

There should not be lots of aces in his range, unless there's history between him and bw that is not being shared here. AT usually won't be in his range, with the numbers supplied.

Checkraising the flop is not a bad idea. I don't think it's ideal versus someone who raises postflop a lot (betting to induce a raise is better) but it has merit. I agree with you that we're usually WA/WB, but WA/WB and "cheap showdown" only go together if we can't get money out of the hands that we beat. Checking this flop screams "I'm not folding" (because if you had air, surely you'd bet an ace-high flop) and that's why I think betting to induce a raise might be better.

trewtrew · Jul 3, 2009

fold the flop. The range of hands he is check raising u with on the flop that u can beat is too slim to make the call here, and as he only has $42 behind after u call u have to call the last of his stack, whereas if he had $150 or so behind, there would be more play to the hand

Skidmark · Jul 3, 2009

F Paulsson said:
There should not be lots of aces in his range, unless there's history between him and bw that is not being shared here. AT usually won't be in his range, with the numbers supplied.

Checkraising the flop is not a bad idea. I don't think it's ideal versus someone who raises postflop a lot (betting to induce a raise is better) but it has merit. I agree with you that we're usually WA/WB, but WA/WB and "cheap showdown" only go together if we can't get money out of the hands that we beat. Checking this flop screams "I'm not folding" (because if you had air, surely you'd bet an ace-high flop) and that's why I think betting to induce a raise might be better.

are u kidding? what are you inducing with KK on a ace high flop in a 3bet pot? ur clearly folding to a raise.
10$ says he has ace ten pick a hand?

F Paulsson · Jul 3, 2009

Skidmark said:
are u kidding? what are you inducing with KK on a ace high flop in a 3bet pot? ur clearly folding to a raise.
10$ says he has ace ten pick a hand?

No, if I'm betting I'm decidedly not folding to a raise. If I was hellbent on finding a fold somewhere, I'd check/call the flop and check/fold the turn.

Do I have to pick a hand? Can't I lay you odds on it not being AT instead? What kind of odds would you want?

Skidmark · Jul 3, 2009

10 for 60 alright?

F Paulsson · Jul 3, 2009

Skidmark said:
10 for 60 alright?

Just to be clear, are we betting on him having specifically AsTx?

Skidmark · Jul 3, 2009

F Paulsson said:
Just to be clear, are we betting on him having specifically AsTx?

hmmm i may evade a little bit here

i totally forgot about the spade thing it will be too ambitious but i totally accept if you accept any AT.
or if you dont like the odds just pick a hand and if neither of us knows correct nobody wins, you cant lose if its not AT.

F Paulsson · Jul 3, 2009

Eh. For shits and giggles I'll go with TT, then. $10 even odds bet accepted.

Skidmark · Jul 3, 2009

ok deal mate.
good choice though that would be my second pick

bw07507 · Jul 4, 2009

lol both of you are wrong, he actually had AK which is just so wierd to me that he didnt 4bet.

Skidmark · Jul 4, 2009

damn i was close

i was also right about aces being in his range

bw07507 · Jul 4, 2009

damn i was close
i was also right about aces being in his range

AK is in his range like 5% of the time or less I believe. Just kind of a flue that he decided to flat AK here imo.

Skidmark · Jul 4, 2009

bw07507 said:
AK is in his range like 5% of the time or less I believe. Just kind of a flue that he decided to flat AK here imo.

for sure none of us can say he has ak there as there is only one k left. But he had an ace for sure and the only ace that made sense would be AT there, he wouldnt play aj or aq like that postflop, and tt seemed not likely to me.
and actually i like the way that guy played a lot. he got the max value from his ak against your kk.

ImolAyrton · Jul 5, 2009

I would think he had a flush draw or a lower set..

Infamous1020 · Jul 5, 2009

bw07507 said:
AK is in his range like 5% of the time or less I believe. Just kind of a flue that he decided to flat AK here imo.

def def agree. just cuz he showed up with AK here, doesnt mean AK is like ever in his range here.

for everyone that said to fold flop imo thats really bad.

bw pretty much agree with all your thoughts here etc. fwiw

Infamous1020 · Jul 5, 2009

Skidmark said:
for sure none of us can say he has ak there as there is only one k left. But he had an ace for sure and the only ace that made sense would be AT there, he wouldnt play aj or aq like that postflop, and tt seemed not likely to me.
and actually i like the way that guy played a lot. he got the max value from his ak against your kk.

so basically he only really flats here IP with an ace? lol.

what stakes do you play?

pretty much assuming hes competent he 4bets big aces here for value i would think. i mean its a 5 handed game, he is peeling with ALOT of hands, not just decent aces.

plus i agree with what bw said. on that flop i wouldnt think he raises AQish hands, so id prob call down also lol

like obviously i dont know villian or anything, but most 100nl players dont really merge and balance and stuff.

Skidmark · Jul 5, 2009

Infamous1020 said:
so basically he only really flats here IP with an ace? lol.

what stakes do you play?

pretty much assuming hes competent he 4bets big aces here for value i would think. i mean its a 5 handed game, he is peeling with ALOT of hands, not just decent aces.

plus i agree with what bw said. on that flop i wouldnt think he raises AQish hands, so id prob call down also lol

like obviously i dont know villian or anything, but most 100nl players dont really merge and balance and stuff.

i play 200nl, 400nl around 9-13bb/100.
he doesnt only flats with an ace of course. But when he reraises on the flop you basically have to give up on next streets as u cant stand any more aggression. As i said check raising on the flop instead of leading is better and u have to give up most of the time when called. also sometimes when u take that line u may even represent AA, A10 or AsXs and maybe force him to fold on later streets.

bw07507 · Jul 5, 2009

i play 200nl, 400nl around 9-13bb/100.

Im assuming u play live?? If you play online what is ur sn and what site do u play?

bw07507 · Jul 5, 2009

Im assuming u play live?? If you play online what is ur sn and what site do u play?

Yea, I decided to look it up myself. Used the names u gave in ur profile. Def a 9-13bb/100 winner at 200 and 400NL. Lol

http://www.pokertableratings.com/stars-player-search/skidmark

http://www.pokertableratings.com/fulltilt-player-search/OkanT

S93 · Jul 5, 2009

Skidmark said:
i play 200nl, 400nl around 9-13bb/100.
he doesnt only flats with an ace of course. But when he reraises on the flop you basically have to give up on next streets as u cant stand any more aggression. As i said check raising on the flop instead of leading is better and u have to give up most of the time when called. also sometimes when u take that line u may even represent AA, A10 or AsXs and maybe force him to fold on later streets.

If this is true and its online not live(and its more then 150hands) you would be the greatest 200nl and 400nl player ever...

Skidmark · Jul 5, 2009

lol how didnt i think that u could look up my stats and catch me

lucky for me there are much more profitable networks for european players

kleitches · Jul 8, 2009

Status: ICE COLD!

$100 NLHE 6-max: KK in 3bet Pot on A high Board

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