$100 NLHE 6-max: Dbl Gutty vs Aggro Reg

polakpoker4

polakpoker4

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$100 NL HE 6-max: Dbl Gutty vs Aggro Reg

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 19/15/5

poker stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 597889
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

CO: $19.40
BTN: $22.00
SB: $121.45
BB: $41.45
UTG: $100.00
Hero (MP): $100.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is MP with A J
UTG raises to $3, Hero calls $3, 4 folds

Flop: ($7.50) Q 8 T (2 players)
UTG bets $5, Hero raises to $17, UTG raises to $45, Hero ???

Other relevant stats on villain are 70% flop cbet, 60% turn cbet, opens 20% from UTG (which is super wide IMO).

What's the best way to play this draw? Once I raise, do I come over the top and shove, do I call and shove/call off on turn or just fold to 3bet on flop?
 
Numbuh 0ne

Numbuh 0ne

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Your only getting 1/1 on a call here and I doubt this guy is folding to you 50% of the time if you push him all in here because he is pot commited and you would be giving him about 3/1, so I think your odds are bad so I would fold. I think he's got the goods here and it would have to be a major suckout for you to win. Raising that draw is fine but facing opposition like that I would fold in a second. Your way to deep to be sticking it in on that kinda draw.
 
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bubonicplay

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Raising then not knowing how you're reacting to a raise just shows you're not thinking about the hand very well. I think as played it's a fold but you should know before you raise whether you're raise/folding or raise/shipping assuming normal raise size. I think raise/fold or just flatting this flop can both be fine because you rep a ton of hands both ways. When he 3-bets flop though he's not folding to a ship and I don't think you have direct odds to flat so I just fold.
 
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baudib1

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Raising this draw vs. a strong UTG range is just terrible IMO, I can see this BTN vs. CO where your A and possibly your J is good enough to win. but his range is uber strong here and you have 6-8 outs, half of which are fairly well disguised or might hit him in some way, it's a shame to not draw at it cheaply.

as played fold obv
 
polakpoker4

polakpoker4

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Raising this draw vs. a strong UTG range is just terrible IMO, I can see this BTN vs. CO where your A and possibly your J is good enough to win. but his range is uber strong here and you have 6-8 outs, half of which are fairly well disguised or might hit him in some way, it's a shame to not draw at it cheaply.

Villain's range isnt exactly that strong. He opens 20% UTG which is actually extremely high (generally its around 13-15%). When he 3bets the flop, I agree his range is much stronger but this villain isnt positionally aware and opens way too much from UTG.

I definitely I played hand really bad and didn't really have a plan for the hand, which isnt usually the case. I think flatting would be best here because my straight is so well disguised if I can hit it on the turn, and theres a chance he checks the turn back and I can take it away.
 
KardKlub

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Villain's range isnt exactly that strong. He opens 20% UTG which is actually extremely high (generally its around 13-15%). When he 3bets the flop, I agree his range is much stronger but this villain isnt positionally aware and opens way too much from UTG.

I definitely I played hand really bad and didn't really have a plan for the hand, which isnt usually the case. I think flatting would be best here because my straight is so well disguised if I can hit it on the turn, and theres a chance he checks the turn back and I can take it away.

Yeah, flat ip with your draws more, he's already putting a good bet in here to help inflate it for you and any strong hand is going to be playing fast on this wet board so you lost a good oportunity to float in good condition.
 
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Zybomb

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Call rather than raise the flop,you're IP

You can bluff hearts, hit your draw or pick up the pot on a missed turn if he surrenders (though his turn bet % is high)
 
F Paulsson

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Your hand is way too strong to raise here. I guess that may sound strange to some, but the point is that this board is way too coordinated for villain to bet/fold the stuff that you're actually happy about him bet/folding. Underpairs are giving up on the turn almost always anyway, so what are you trying to fold out by raising? AK? JJ? You're targetting a very narrow range for this to be good, and you're unfortunately going to get played back at too often for you to be able to happily raise/fold, but not often enough that you can happily raise/shove either.

To put it differently: The stuff that he folds when you raise, you would probably have been able to fold out on later streets anyway. And the stuff that he 3-bets with is exactly the range that you want to call versus, because your implied odds versus that range is great.

So flat the flop.
 
JimmyBrizzy

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Your hand is way too strong to raise here. I guess that may sound strange to some, but the point is that this board is way too coordinated for villain to bet/fold the stuff that you're actually happy about him bet/folding. Underpairs are giving up on the turn almost always anyway, so what are you trying to fold out by raising? AK? JJ? You're targetting a very narrow range for this to be good, and you're unfortunately going to get played back at too often for you to be able to happily raise/fold, but not often enough that you can happily raise/shove either.

To put it differently: The stuff that he folds when you raise, you would probably have been able to fold out on later streets anyway. And the stuff that he 3-bets with is exactly the range that you want to call versus, because your implied odds versus that range is great.

So flat the flop.

This is pure gold.
 
Weregoat

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I don't play 6-handed any more, but isn't calling with AJs against somebody's wide UTG opening range wrong too? Don't get me wrong, I hate 3-betting with it in full-ring against multiple deepstacks, but a proper raise could get you more information, and save your flop blunders...

I like flatting the flop here. He could have QT, a set, a PP, a flush draw, a straight draw, a made straight, or a made straight with a flush draw, maybe even top-pair top kicker. I like calling here and hoping one of the non-heart kings peal. And if a heart peals I'd consider firing up the guns.
 
atlantafalcons0

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Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 19/15/5

Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 597889
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

CO: $19.40
BTN: $22.00
SB: $121.45
BB: $41.45
UTG: $100.00
Hero (MP): $100.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is MP with A J
UTG raises to $3, Hero calls $3, 4 folds

Flop: ($7.50) Q 8 T (2 players)
UTG bets $5, Hero raises to $17, UTG raises to $45, Hero ???

Other relevant stats on villain are 70% flop cbet, 60% turn cbet, opens 20% from UTG (which is super wide IMO).

What's the best way to play this draw? Once I raise, do I come over the top and shove, do I call and shove/call off on turn or just fold to 3bet on flop?

I'm not quite understanding why not just call the flop bet.

That's the way I would play it anyway.

Honestly, if you decide to raise his flop bet and he reraises like that,

it's time to FOLD!

:)
 
cucumber_pandas

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Your hand is way too strong to raise here. I guess that may sound strange to some, but the point is that this board is way too coordinated for villain to bet/fold the stuff that you're actually happy about him bet/folding. Underpairs are giving up on the turn almost always anyway, so what are you trying to fold out by raising? AK? JJ? You're targetting a very narrow range for this to be good, and you're unfortunately going to get played back at too often for you to be able to happily raise/fold, but not often enough that you can happily raise/shove either.

To put it differently: The stuff that he folds when you raise, you would probably have been able to fold out on later streets anyway. And the stuff that he 3-bets with is exactly the range that you want to call versus, because your implied odds versus that range is great.

So flat the flop.

I was gonna say the same thing. You explained it way better than I could have though.
 
BelgoSuisse

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Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 19/15/5

opens 20% from UTG (which is super wide IMO).

Unless you have a gazillion hands on villain, there's no way his UTG open stats are valid here. I've never ever seen a 19/15 raise more UTG than in other positions.

I'm not sure I love calling preflop. It's marginal, imo.

I agree wholeheartedly with FP about flatting this flop.
 
polakpoker4

polakpoker4

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Ya, I definitely think I just had a moment of bad judgement because it's pretty apparent that flatting is much better than raising.

As far as his UTG open stat goes, it was over a pretty decent sample (something like 1000 hands). I have seen a lot of people with tight stats that open pretty wide UTG btw. I datamined a ton of hands on .5/1 on stars and found quite a bit of those players. It seems like they might feel they get more respect UTG and can therefore open a wider range without the fear of getting 3bet light.
 
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bubonicplay

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I don't play 6-handed any more, but isn't calling with AJs against somebody's wide UTG opening range wrong too? Don't get me wrong, I hate 3-betting with it in full-ring against multiple deepstacks, but a proper raise could get you more information, and save your flop blunders...

I like flatting the flop here. He could have QT, a set, a PP, a flush draw, a straight draw, a made straight, or a made straight with a flush draw, maybe even top-pair top kicker. I like calling here and hoping one of the non-heart kings peal. And if a heart peals I'd consider firing up the guns.

Why would you 3-bet preflop here? The way you get more info and avoid flop blunders is improving hand-reading skills and playing better postflop, not from making -ev plays so that you have more information...
 
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