$100 NLHE 6-max: 76s in 3way 3bet pot IP

nikerules

nikerules

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called open raise, it's standart call for me, when i saw 3bet and call i decided that i have nice odds, poition on other players and my hand wouldn't be dominated so i called 3bet. ok, i easy called flop and saw the best turn i ever can see w my hand. so question is must i bet here or just check behind, i think i can check and bluff bet river against Ax maybe some KQ, but pairs will bet river themselves and i could just fold when i didn't hit my outs. so how do you think which line is better?


$0.50/$1 No Limit Holdem
PartyPoker
6 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by WeakTight Poker Hand History Converter

Stacks:
UTG ($180.54) 181bb
UTG+1 ($100) 100bb
CO ($174.24) 174bb
BTN Hero ($104.50) 105bb
SB ($82.93) 83bb
BB ($100) 100bb

Pre-Flop: (1.50, 6 players) Hero is BTN 7:diamond: 6:diamond:
UTG raises to $3.10, 2 folds, Hero calls $3.10, 1 fold, BB raises to $13.50, UTG calls $10.40, Hero calls $10.40
Flop: 2:diamond: 2:club: 8:club: ($41, 3 players)

BB bets $10.91, UTG calls $10.91, Hero calls $10.91

Turn: 9:diamond: ($73.73, 3)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $28, BB goes all-in $75.59, UTG folds, Hero calls $47.59 River: 10:diamond: ($224.91, 2), 1 all-in

Final Pot: $224.91
BB shows
A:diamond: A:club:
Hero shows
7:diamond: 6:diamond:

Hero wins $221.91 (net +$121.91)

UTG lost $24.41
BB lost $100
 
J

JustSoPro

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Once you put ANY money in that pot, you had to call his shove based on pot equity. However, I personally would have raised higher on that turn, use your open ended straight draw as a bluff as you will still miss more times than you will hit so it's worth trying to get them to fold here.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Wow, way to spew money bro!
 
Gohaku94

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called open raise, it's standart call for me, when i saw 3bet and call i decided that i have nice odds, poition on other players and my hand wouldn't be dominated so i called 3bet. ok, i easy called flop and saw the best turn i ever can see w my hand. so question is must i bet here or just check behind, i think i can check and bluff bet river against Ax maybe some KQ, but pairs will bet river themselves and i could just fold when i didn't hit my outs. so how do you think which line is better?


$0.50/$1 No Limit Holdem
PartyPoker
6 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by WeakTight Poker Hand History Converter

Stacks:
UTG ($180.54) 181bb
UTG+1 ($100) 100bb
CO ($174.24) 174bb
BTN Hero ($104.50) 105bb
SB ($82.93) 83bb
BB ($100) 100bb

Pre-Flop: (1.50, 6 players) Hero is BTN 7[emoji815]: 6[emoji815]:
UTG raises to $3.10, 2 folds, Hero calls $3.10, 1 fold, BB raises to $13.50, UTG calls $10.40, Hero calls $10.40
Flop: 2[emoji815]: 2[emoji814]: 8[emoji814]: ($41, 3 players)

BB bets $10.91, UTG calls $10.91, Hero calls $10.91

Turn: 9[emoji815]: ($73.73, 3)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $28, BB goes all-in $75.59, UTG folds, Hero calls $47.59 River: 10[emoji815]: ($224.91, 2), 1 all-in

Final Pot: $224.91
BB shows
A[emoji815]: A[emoji814]:
Hero shows
7[emoji815]: 6[emoji815]:

Hero wins $221.91 (net +$121.91)

UTG lost $24.41
BB lost $100
This is a really lucky hand and play that will just lose you alot of money on the long run. So just fold to 3bet preflop :D
 
Alucard

Alucard

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This is a really lucky hand and play that will just lose you alot of money on the long run. So just fold to 3bet preflop :D


flatting is fine. but post flop is terrible
 
J

JustSoPro

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flatting is fine. but post flop is terrible
I would have probably folded pre-flop, however sometimes I throw other hands in my range to keep my opponents guessing(Maybe that's what his goal was? Seems more effective live than online to me, people get more emotionally attached)

I'd say calling on the flop was his biggest misplay, raising on the turn SEEMS like a bluff even didn't push enough chips for it to ever work.
Flop: Should have folded
Turn: Should have raised more(Like trying to defend against flush) or check. He has an open ended flush draw so I see enough equity to attempt to bluff, nothing wrong with checking to try and get a cheap card though.
River: If I didn't push already, I'd do a small bet(hoping to get re-raised) or check (hoping someone tried to steal pot), shoving here you would only get called by higher flushes.
 
mitchy boi

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$10 into $40 with 67dd ok yeh sure maybe..

But once they both call on the flop your crushed... your counting on a runner runner to bail you out, the pot odds are not there this is just an -EV play


To summarise.


I'm glad you won this hand but I would defiantly invite you back if I was the other players
 
Matt Vaughan

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Preflop: Defensible. I don't love the spot but I'm also not folding.

Flop: The issue here is that you are not heads up. If UTG had folded to the BB's cbet, we'd have one of our better holdings to continue with. However multiway I don't expect UTG to be floating much of the time if ever, and BB will hold fewer bluffs multiway as well. So now we just don't have the equity in the pot to continue given that we will win the pot very little of the time without improving.

Turn: Well. We called. We hit the best card in the deck for us. It checks to us somehow. BB might have a bluff and be giving up, but UTG checking is almost more concerning than him betting. If UTG floated flop with AK or similar, wouldn't he stab when BB checks? If not then he most likely has SDV or at least a draw that isn't going away. I'm DEFINITELY checking back and taking my equity here.

After we bet and BB jams, we're obviously always behind, but have the right odds to continue so call is fine...

But yeah this hand should be played pretty differently after preflop imo.
 
c9h13no3

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How is calling 3-bets with two cards smaller than an 8 defensible? Riddle me that!
 
mbrenneman0

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Yeah, getting 1:3 vs a 3bet and a call, two ranges that likely have us crushed and an spr of 2:1 (no implied odds) im not a fan of calling the 3bet. BBs flop sizing sets it up perfectly to get all the money in. Hes trying to play for stacks from the flop.
 
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I think pre-flop once 3bet is a fold, even though you will have position, the pot will be big and stacks a bit too shallow to maneuver.

I would never call flop, the hand could do good as a bluff raise but calling is really weird, you are calling to hopefully get 20% chance to improve on the river, (If Vil bets more than 1/4 pot you have to fold even if you hit FD or OESD).

As played, turn is great, In my opinion.
 
nikerules

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i dont think that i must have fold preflop w 76s when i had 4 to 1 IP. Probably i must fold the flop, but he bets so small that i decided that i can call and push turn if i'll hit any diamonds or 9 or 5(so as i counted i have 14 nice runouts and chanses 7to1), maybe sometimes we hit T or 4 on turn and play check check... so the question was must i bet so nice turn or it would be better to check??? about size on turn i thought there is no diffrence which size i bet w my hand
P.S. : i'm just fish) so do not judge strictly) i got -6.9bb 177k hands on partypoker and now i'm broke, it's hand's from 2017 when i lose my bankroll, so i post old hands to understand what was wrong....
 
mbrenneman0

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i dont think that i must have fold preflop w 76s when i had 4 to 1 IP. Probably i must fold the flop, but he bets so small that i decided that i can call and push turn if i'll hit any diamonds or 9 or 5(so as i counted i have 14 nice runouts and chanses 7to1), maybe sometimes we hit T or 4 on turn and play check check... so the question was must i bet so nice turn or it would be better to check??? about size on turn i thought there is no diffrence which size i bet w my hand
P.S. : i'm just fish) so do not judge strictly) i got -6.9bb 177k hands on partypoker and now i'm broke, it's hand's from 2017 when i lose my bankroll, so i post old hands to understand what was wrong....

3:1 not 4:1 you were calling $10 to win $30. thats 30:10 which obviously simplifies obviously to 3:1 the pot isnt 40 until *after* you call your 10, thats why you're not calling 10 to win 40.

lets say you do hit a diamond on the turn and you decide to bet. as a semi bluff, you have roughly 20 to 30% odds of the bluff getting through (if we're being generous, probably less chance of getting through because we're 3 ways) then if you get called, you only have 20% chance of hitting your flush. and then you have to worry about getting beaten by a better flush. so its more like 18% that you hit the flush and win.... so on a diamond turn, you have roughly 38 to 50% chance of winning the hand. and this is all depending on hitting a diamond turn, which there is only a 20% chance of... so we're calling the flop on a 20% chance of a 38% to 50% chance of winning the hand 20% of 38% to 50% = 8% to 10% .... youre calling the flop for at best 10% chance of winning. that is why its bad

you need to realize 18% equity in order to make the flop call profitable. realized equity is also not the same as straight equity. realized equity means our equity after we factor the odds that we even make it to showdown, meaning our holdings have to be strong enough to defend against bluffs. lets say you spike a 6 on the turn. do you really feel good about taking that to showdown 3 ways when BB has a lot of overpairs in his range?

you have like half the equity you need on the flop
 
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WabiSabi

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Pre is ok but it's an easy fold on the flop imo.
 
c9h13no3

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To those who say preflop is okay: we're getting 9.4:1 direct plus implied odds. Typically you want at least 12:1 to setmine. Our hand is weaker than a small pair too, we have to call flop & turn bets while behind in order to make 2-pair or better.

Calling preflop is a giant leak, even if you play perfectly. The original post's author obviously is new, and should be even more conservative.
 
Alucard

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http://www.pokerstrategy.com
Equity Win Tie
MP2 31.51% 30.24% 1.27% { QQ-99, AQs-ATs, A5s-A2s, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, AQo }
BU 26.41% 26.25% 0.16% { 7d6d }
BB 42.07% 40.85% 1.22% { TT+, ATs+, KJs+, QJs, JTs, AJo+, KQo }

Might be a bit narrow of a range though
pot odds are 25% on flop

Anyway I'd probably be 3betting pre than flatting this from BTN.
3bet pre, & fold to 4bet.
The way it played I don't mind flatting the 3bet with the odds we are getting. Plus we are IP. Although I'm not so familiar with implied odds.
 
WabiSabi

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Pre is an ok call with position on both players and the increased implied odds the other caller adds.I would call any pp here and most good suited connectors like 76s.You don't have to call the flop with 1 pair that's not the hand your calling to hit and it would depend on the postflop action bet size and board texture etc...
 
c9h13no3

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Might be a bit narrow of a range though
pot odds are 25% on flop
No, that's your equity on the river. You won't be ahead on the flop 25% of the time.

You're getting into a low SPR pot with a hand that can't make top pair... what's so hard about this preflop decision?
 
Alucard

Alucard

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You're getting into a low SPR pot with a hand that can't make top pair... what's so hard about this preflop decision?

We aren't calling to make a pair.
We are calling to make 2pairs,trips,FDs ,SDs that'd be very well hidden & could be an easy stack off vs Vs top of the range
Based on your theory we don't have a flatting range in this spot other than 9s I believe hoping to catch a set.
I'm happy flatting some SCs than something like 9s
 
c9h13no3

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We are calling to make 2pairs,trips,FDs ,SDs that'd be very well hidden
Perfect! You’re so close!

Now do this math:


What are the odds we make 2 pair or better on the flop. Now divide the amount you make when you hit by $10.40. Which # is bigger?


Hint: Odds of flopping 2 pair+ is roughly 5.6%, (16.8:1).

2nd hint: We don’t have 16.8:1 implied odds.

Edit: Cardschat has an article about implied odds. They recommend 20:1 for set-mining. Convince yourself this is an obvious fold, because it is.
https://www.cardschat.com/set-mining-poker.php
 
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