$100 NLHE 6-max: $100 NLHE 6-max: AK from SB against aggressive BB

B

blindsfisher

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 15, 2016
Total posts
34
Chips
0
Hello, please tell me your thought of the pre flop game and how you would proceed.

BTN: $63.55
Hero (SB): $180.84
BB: $81.46
UTG: $71.26
MP: $100.00
CO: $274.76

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is SB with Ad Kd
2 folds, CO raises to $3, BTN calls $3, Hero raises to $13, BB raises to $30, 2 folds, Hero calls $17

Flop: ($66.00) Jh Jc 5s (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $51.46 all in, Hero ...
 
Trabendo_daze

Trabendo_daze

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Total posts
416
Awards
1
Chips
0
Get this in pre, we're making way too many mistakes on flops like this OOP and we have one of the best hands in poker. If we're flipping, we're flipping, but check-folding a majority of the time just seems like a disaster.
 
B

blindsfisher

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 15, 2016
Total posts
34
Chips
0
might be just coincidence, but I burned my full stack with AK pre all in so often against TT to AA and was looking for a cheaper way to find out if I have the best hand
 
John A

John A

Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Total posts
6,492
Awards
3
Chips
37
He's got 80 bbs... just jam pre-flop in this spot. When your opponents start to get shallow, their stack off range gets lighter too, so you'll see AQ and some dumb bluffs (because of the squeeze) often enough for this to be profitable.
 
Trabendo_daze

Trabendo_daze

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Total posts
416
Awards
1
Chips
0
Playing AK OOP is just way too hard. You'll find it most situations you'll want to keep the initiative on your side for fold equity. This is one of those situations.
 
B

blindsfisher

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 15, 2016
Total posts
34
Chips
0
ok, understood your point and it seems I do the same mistake whenever I expect my position to be weak.

here is one AK that I escalated quickly:

poker stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - http://www.handconverter.com/hands/2904219
The DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

BTN: $288.92
SB: $143.71
BB: $352.71
UTG: $256.55
MP: $156.52
Hero (CO): $120.55

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is CO with Kd Ah
2 folds, Hero raises to $3, 1 fold, SB raises to $10, 1 fold, Hero raises to $120.55 all in, SB calls $110.55

Flop: ($242.10) 8d Ad 4c (2 players - 1 is all in)

Turn: ($242.10) 3h (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($242.10) 8s (2 players - 1 is all in)

--------------------------
Let's ignore that I won. Was the shove justified against the 10BB 3-bet?
 
S

Simplex

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 15, 2015
Total posts
131
Chips
0
I think if the guy is real aggro, you have call his bluff shove on a JJX, or any paired board. Occasionally, when he shows up with with some pocket pair preflop, you still have almost 30% equity. If the board was two face cards, QJx, a fold would prob be fine too. It's really player dependent and what you perceive his three bet range is And/Or his line he would take when he misses.
 
B

blindsfisher

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 15, 2016
Total posts
34
Chips
0
And one more. The call confused me so I checked the flop:


Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - http://www.handconverter.com/hands/2904218
The DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

BTN: $157.96
SB: $93.00
BB: $90.17
UTG: $159.98
MP: $86.38
Hero (CO): $253.27

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is CO with Kd As
2 folds, Hero raises to $3, BTN raises to $10.50, 2 folds, Hero raises to $40, BTN calls $29.50

Flop: ($81.50) 8s 8d 6h (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $39.50, Hero raises to $213.27 all in, BTN folds

--------------------

now we have 2 examples, one with a shove and one with a strong 4 bet pre flop. Both ended positive, but maybe it was just luck?!
 
S

Simplex

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 15, 2015
Total posts
131
Chips
0
And to blindfisher, I dont like your 120BB 4bet shove from a 10 BB 3bet. You're risking way too much ,120 BB, to win so little, 10 BB, simply based on fold equity. And if you get called, you dominate only 2 hands, AQ or AJ. You're behind to every other hand that realistically should consider calling that shove.
 
B

blindsfisher

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 15, 2016
Total posts
34
Chips
0
And one more :)eek:):

Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - http://www.handconverter.com/hands/2904229
The DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

BTN: $199.07
SB: $26.25
Hero (BB): $107.68
UTG: $100.00
MP: $225.87
CO: $151.68

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is BB with Ks As
2 folds, CO raises to $3, BTN calls $3, SB calls $2.50, Hero raises to $23, 1 fold, BTN calls $20, 1 fold

Flop: ($52.00) 7s 5h Ah (2 players)
Hero bets $84.68 all in, BTN calls $84.68

Turn: ($221.36) 6h (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($221.36) 9c (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $221.36
BTN shows Kd Kh (a pair of Kings)
Hero shows Ks As (a pair of Aces)
Hero wins $218.86
 
Trabendo_daze

Trabendo_daze

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Total posts
416
Awards
1
Chips
0
No reason to just like pile a 10x 4-bet. You'll get the same amount of folds with something much smaller
 
S

Simplex

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 15, 2015
Total posts
131
Chips
0
What happens when your AK runs into a set? How bout your AK runs into AA? Or it whiffs? You do you mega-shove and guys snap call you without a care in the world. Where are those hand histories?
 
Trabendo_daze

Trabendo_daze

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Total posts
416
Awards
1
Chips
0
I think you're a little eager to just pile 200 blinds in someone's face. As said above, you're risking way too much and in each of these scenarios the same objective can be obtained with smaller sizing, meaning that you'll lose less the times when they actually have it.
 
B

blindsfisher

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 15, 2016
Total posts
34
Chips
0
You are confusing me. You wrote in your first answer:

Get this in pre, we're making way too many mistakes on flops like this OOP.

So did I...

Scenario 1: my 20BB gets called and you advice to get it in pre
Scenario 2: my raise gets a 3bet and I get it in pre, now you say it's too risky

Scenario 3: instead of shoving all in after facing a 3bet, I went for a 40BB 4bet and get called. Same situation again like in Scenario 1

Scenario 4: my 20BB 3bet gets called again and I hit my ace and try to finish early

No1 I folded and saved some money, even though the check fold wasn't a very clever move. No 2,3,4 I won.
 
Trabendo_daze

Trabendo_daze

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Total posts
416
Awards
1
Chips
0
Sorry for being confusing. I think your scenarios are different and therefore my advice is different.

In scenario 1, we are faced with a decision where we have squeezed AK from the SB and we have been 4-bet by a short stack in the BB. Our decision therefore is to 5-bet shove, or call OOP and see a flop. I think we should 5-bet shove because we won't make any mistakes, you might have a small amount of fold equity, and you very well could be ahead of something like AQs. We are most likely flipping, but with overlay I'll take this spot all day.

In scenario 2, we are faced with a much different decision. We have raised AKo and gotten 3-bet from the SB with deep stacks. Our decision is to either 4-bet or call (or fold, but for obvious reasons that's not an option). Calling is an option here because we have deep stacks and therefore some room for play postflop. Furthermore, we are in position. Calling with AKo can disguise our hand and our opponent may make big mistakes with hands that we are dominating. 4-betting and getting it in is also a fine option. However, since we are deep, this is a much different situation. Getting it in doesn't mean raising $110 over a $10 bet. This is the inefficiency I was mentioning. Rather, 4-betting smaller (like $27-$35) would accomplish a similar task. It's rare when 10x-ing a 3-bet is going to be the right play just because of the inefficiency of the move.
 
B

blindsfisher

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 15, 2016
Total posts
34
Chips
0
Sorry for being confusing. I think your scenarios are different and therefore my advice is different.

In scenario 1, ....


That was very clear now. Thank you for taking the time to get my head clear :D
 
Delvuter

Delvuter

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 2, 2014
Total posts
307
Chips
0
What has BB been like, is he loose and 3-bet happy or is he tight and rarely 3-betting and has he proved to be competent? If he has shown to be incompetent, loose and 3-bet happy, or in this case 4-bet happy, perhaps a call. If tight, rarely 3-betting and competent, easy fold. It's actually a good flop. BB if competent isn't 4-betting anything with a J in it, and odds are he isn't holding a J since to flopped. He also wouldn't be 4-betting a pair of 5's. He would however 4-bet QQ+ which beats you. So if he is loose it's a flip, and if he is tight you lose. If he is loose, call, tight, fold.
 
Top