$10 PLHE Full Ring: 4 bet bluff time...oops?

$10 NLHE Full Ring: 4 bet bluff time...oops?

Hero (BTN): $10.88 (108.8 bb)
SB: $31.78 (317.8 bb)
BB: $10.85 (108.5 bb)
UTG+1: $8.26 (82.6 bb)
UTG+2: $12.42 (124.2 bb)
MP1: $10.45 (104.5 bb)
MP2: $10.32 (103.2 bb)
MP3: $10.47 (104.7 bb)
CO: $10 (100 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with A♥ 5♥
6 folds, Hero raises to $0.25, SB raises to $1, BB folds, Hero raises to $2.30, SB calls $1.30

Flop: ($4.70) K♠ 5♠ K♦ (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2.20, SB calls $2.20

Turn: ($9.10) 9♥ (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($9.10) A♦ (2 players)
SB bets $4, Hero ?

Villain 14/11 over 37 hands. It's early days, but so far his 3bet is 14% so his stats indicate he might be a reg who is just restealing light here so with a suited A blocker it felt like a good spot to put in a light 4bet (let me know if you guys agree). once he calls and given how much money's out there i thought i might as well take a stab at the pot hoping to maybe fold out TT or AQ and then be done with the hand otherwise. once he called i decided to just give up but then the ace came on the river kinda complicated things. at that point he was giving me better than 3:1 and i only lose to a very small number of combos (KK/AK/AQ) and none of those combos make sense since you'd expect KK and AK to get it in pre and AQ would probably give up on flop. so i called hoping he was turning a hand like JJ into a bluff, or even just some random air that he was trying to outplay me with.

How do you guys think i played this hand? What would you have done differently?

Your trying to save money in a 3bet pot... but that flop raise is just too enticing to call. It really does look like your trying to just steal the pot on the flop.

If you had a K or AA you'd be raising at least min 2/3 to 3/4 pot or even pot size pot. Your weak bet on the flop looks too hopeful.

Perhaps bet the turn? ... 9 looks like a blank.

I think you could've tried 1 more on the turn to complete the bluff. Your perceived range is high pockets... but depends on your image.

disagree i think if anything i could have bet less on flop. if i had AA here i would play it exactly the same way. the bets are getting so big in relation to stacks in 4bet pots that i think you can get away with less than half pot bets and still get folds, and it's hard to exploit since if villain calls or raises light the flop bet then he'll be spewing on all the times i have a strong made hand. however i'm wondering if maybe i shouldn't have even bothered with a cbet here, i mean it's such a dry paired board and can't imagine he'd be folding TT-QQ, idk he might fold TT.

also confused at your suggestion to double barrel. aren't "blanks" generally not good barrel cards?

I would have double barreled the turn and shoved in order to keep representing so that way we have a good chance that if villain also has ace high he folds.

If villain has any pair it still is difficult to make a call for him on the turn if we double barrel. We have invested too much in to pot by the turn to just give up which is why i would attempt another bet on turn.

As played i would call the river not only because we paired our ace so it might be good but we can now see villain's hand and get valuable information on whether villain is 3betting light and if so then how much.

I like your play pre flop 4betting with versus a reg you think was trying a steal in that spot and i would have done the same. Only thing is don't do this against a tight player. Only difference in this hand as i said - i would shove turn.

suby_rafael said:

I would have double barreled the turn and shoved in order to keep representing so that way we have a good chance that if villain also has ace high he folds.

If villain has any pair it still is difficult to make a call for him on the turn if we double barrel. We have invested too much in to pot by the turn to just give up which is why i would attempt another bet on turn.

As played i would call the river not only because we paired our ace so it might be good but we can now see villain's hand and get valuable information on whether villain is 3betting light and if so then how much.

I like your play pre flop 4betting with versus a reg you think was trying a steal in that spot and i would have done the same. Only thing is don't do this against a tight player. Only difference in this hand as i said - i would shove turn.

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ah ok i see your reasoning about double barrelling. although repping AK here is kinda hard when villain had quad kings lol

mottotom27 said:

ah ok i see your reasoning about double barrelling. although repping AK here is kinda hard when villain had quad kings lol

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In that spot against a stealing reg you have to go for it. If he was attempting a steal expect him to have nothing of much value. If he has a king let him take our money. But we got to try and outplay him rather than getting outplayed especially the way the hand was played until the flop. :fight:

suby_rafael said:

In that spot against a stealing reg you have to go for it. If he was attempting a steal expect him to have nothing of much value. If he has a king let him take our money. But we got to try and outplay him rather than getting outplayed especially the way the hand was played until the flop. :fight:

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so you don't think when he calls a 4bet he has a really strong range? i mean i was kinda relying on preflop fold equity for my preflop 3bet, expecting him to either fold or shove. so when he called i didn't know what to do really. but i think he played the hand well by calling to trap and induce more bets from me in a spot where i might often choose to 4bet bluff.

mottotom27 said:

so you don't think when he calls a 4bet he has a really strong range? i mean i was kinda relying on preflop fold equity for my preflop 3bet, expecting him to either fold or shove. so when he called i didn't know what to do really. but i think he played the hand well by calling to trap and induce more bets from me in a spot where i might often choose to 4bet bluff.

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A stealing reg there will not flat call our 4 bet with or right ??

So he either has a pair, a weaker ace(weaker than AQ) or worse .... (could be king high,queen high or random). So if villain 3bet us light with King high pre flop and makes 3 kings then he is lucky and so be it.

Anything else and we are putting him on a spot by shoving - which is likely to get through unless he tries a bluff catch with a pair or hero calls with ace high ...

most players at these limits would jam the KK pre.

flatting usually represents JJ or QQ in this spot. Something wrong with this hand type thing hence the whole flat calling the 4bet pre. So we gotta feel somewhat hopeful when the flop comes out and hope he didn't have AK

Though I have been noticing the last couple months people are playing KK and AA oddly these days a bit more conservatively if you would say, cuz most would always jam all in but ppl are watchful for AA nowadays.


***Make sure you note that he flat calls 4bets with premium hands*** and how much he raised his 3bet. Get some type of pattern hopefully.


Perhaps your play will work better OOP against this player next time against this guy since he's cautious. Steal a lot from him hopefully

mottotom27 said:

Preflop: Hero is BTN with A♥ 5♥
6 folds, Hero raises to $0.25, SB raises to $1, BB folds, Hero raises to $2.30, SB calls $1.30

Flop: ($4.70) K♠ 5♠ K♦ (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2.20, SB calls $2.20

Turn: ($9.10) 9♥ (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($9.10) A♦ (2 players)
SB bets $4, Hero ?

Villain 14/11 over 37 hands. It's early days, but so far his 3bet is 14% so his stats indicate he might be a reg who is just restealing light here so with a suited A blocker it felt like a good spot to put in a light 4bet (let me know if you guys agree).
How do you guys think i played this hand? What would you have done differently?

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I have been playing around with 4 bet bluffing for months now and it can be quite a big leak if you get it wrong.
You really only want to be 4 bet bluffing against players you are certain are 3betting light. We don't have anywhere near the stats to know for sure here and we payed the price. It is the right hand and almost the right circumstances. Some times we will be fine here as early indications are he may be light in this spot.
I would take 1 stab on the flop to rep a king. If he doesn't have one he has to be concerned that we do. Once he calls on that flop however we are toast....no way he calls here without a king in a 4 bet pot unless maybe he has aces maybe even queens if he's really stubborn (still beats us) what else can he call with?? The fact you have an ace blocker makes him having a King even more likely does it not.
I'm not sure why Suby can't give him AK here, combos are reduced but lots of players don't like 5 bet shoving AK. also consider even if he was 3betting light here a lot of his light polarised hands will have a K in them.
...our betting the turn would be spew imho. Your turn check was correct imo.
His turn check is the means to getting paid on the river hoping you catch something which helps you and assisting with deceiving you as to his hand strength ...which happened of course and is good play by the villain. Difficult to get away from on the river as played but again nearly always still beaten.