$10 NLHEFull Ring: Getting it in ahead, but this could be a bad thing?

xdeucesx

xdeucesx

Bar Master
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 7, 2010
Total posts
7,139
Awards
3
Chips
21
I understand we always want to get it in with the best hand, but is there a point where they have enough outs that its not a good idea?

full tilt poker $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players - View hand 983095
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter
BTN: $3.90
SB: $4.50
BB: $5.20
UTG: $30.27
UTG+1: $10.05
UTG+2: $10.00
MP1: $1.52
Hero (MP2): $14.60
CO: $10.78
Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is MP2 with 8 :heart: 6 :heart:
4 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, 1 fold, BTN raises to $0.60, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.30
Flop: ($1.35) 8 :club: T :club: 6 :diamond: (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $3.30 all in, Hero calls $3.30
Turn: ($7.95) Q :spade: (2 players - 1 is all in)
River: ($7.95) Q :club: (2 players - 1 is all in)
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Total posts
22,973
Chips
0
I understand we always want to get it in with the best hand, but is there a point where they have enough outs that its not a good idea?

Full Tilt Poker $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players - View hand 983095
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter
BTN: $3.90
SB: $4.50
BB: $5.20
UTG: $30.27
UTG+1: $10.05
UTG+2: $10.00
MP1: $1.52
Hero (MP2): $14.60
CO: $10.78
Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is MP2 with 8 6
4 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, 1 fold, BTN raises to $0.60, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.30
Flop: ($1.35) 8 T 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $3.30 all in, Hero calls $3.30
Turn: ($7.95) Q (2 players - 1 is all in)
River: ($7.95) Q (2 players - 1 is all in)

You do realize that if they have enough outs, say Jc9c in the hand above, they actually have the best hand, right? It's all about equity after all 5 cards are out if we're getting AI, not who has the winning hand right now. But you're always up against a range not a single hand and bottom 2 in a 3bet pot should be doing pretty well on that board. Better question is of course wtf are you doing in a 3bet pot against a 40bb stack with 86s but whatever.
 
xdeucesx

xdeucesx

Bar Master
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 7, 2010
Total posts
7,139
Awards
3
Chips
21
he turned over aces, i thought it was obvious on the reraise? so i called hoping to bust him, i didnt but i was ahead...jw thats all
 
cjatud2012

cjatud2012

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Total posts
3,904
Chips
0
In the most extreme case where villain has Jc9c, the equities look like this:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 51.515% 51.52% 00.00% 510 0.00 { Jc9c }
Hand 1: 48.485% 48.48% 00.00% 480 0.00 { 8h6h }

so he's actually a favorite here. That doesn't mean we're making a mistake though. We're still getting the necessary pot odds here. Our win odds are ~1:1, while the pot is offering is ~1.4:1, I believe? So it's still a profitable call.

Also, would you be asking yourself this question if he didn't hit runner-runner to suck out? Probably not, :p
 
nabmom

nabmom

Community Guide
Community Guide
Joined
Dec 24, 2009
Total posts
6,372
Awards
13
Chips
325
Isn't it a weak reraise? Why think it's obvious that the hand is AA?

You had the best hand when you called, although I think I would have been more concerned about the outs for a flush draw.

I guess what I also wonder is whether this is the spot you want to be in with 68s when you're out of position. I wonder if it would have been a mistake to call the reraise.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Total posts
22,973
Chips
0
he turned over aces, i thought it was obvious on the reraise? so i called hoping to bust him, i didnt but i was ahead...jw thats all
If he was full stacked calling the min 3bet would be fine but when he's got a 40bb stack calling to flop 2pair+ is spew. Opening 86s from MP is likely spew at 10nl regardless of stack size.
 
xdeucesx

xdeucesx

Bar Master
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 7, 2010
Total posts
7,139
Awards
3
Chips
21
Cjatud- Yea haha i know, but it brought up a good point for me thats all, im not complaining about it, just wondering if maybe i didnt make the right move thats all lol

debpes- a min raise at 10nl almost always means aces or kings, idk ive seen it so many times now haha

wvh- yea good point, i overplay my suited connectors all the time
 
rssurfer54

rssurfer54

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Total posts
557
Chips
0
Isn't it a weak reraise? Why think it's obvious that the hand is AA?

min raises at 10nl are usually aa or kk. especially if the villain doesnt normally reraise. sooooooo, if we have 100 bb, this could be a good call, but against a short stacker no way (already said above).
 
cjatud2012

cjatud2012

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Total posts
3,904
Chips
0
Cjatud- Yea haha i know, but it brought up a good point for me thats all, im not complaining about it, just wondering if maybe i didnt make the right move thats all lol

debpes- a min raise at 10nl almost always means aces or kings, idk ive seen it so many times now haha

wvh- yea good point, i overplay my suited connectors all the time

Well it's not overplaying them if you have the right implied odds. But if you're short-stacking you will certainly never have the right implied odds. So my advice would be to buy-in full.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Total posts
22,973
Chips
0
Well it's not overplaying them if you have the right implied odds. But if you're short-stacking you will certainly never have the right implied odds. So my advice would be to buy-in full.
OP had 150bbs. His opponent was the shorty.
 
cjatud2012

cjatud2012

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Total posts
3,904
Chips
0
OP had 150bbs. His opponent was the shorty.

ah my bad. I'm confusing this with the 200NL hand where he bought in short lol.

But yeah, the point remains the same. Suited connectors need implied odds, which are not present against a short stack.
 
B

baudib1

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Total posts
6,635
Chips
0
If you're not happy getting it in ahead, even with a slim margin, you should play limit.

In fact, you should be happy getting it in behind in a lot of situations if you're getting the right pot odds. If you're never getting it in behind, you're probably doing something wrong.
 
J

JMcCabe

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 16, 2010
Total posts
226
Chips
0
If you're never getting it in behind, you're probably doing something wrong.

This may be the most important point of the thread (apart from the obvious joke due to the wording).

A lot of new players get so hung up on whether or not they are a favourite when the money went in, based on the actual card held by each player.

When you start thinking in terms of ranges of hand (not specific hands) and get a better idea of pot odds, there are plenty of examples where it's correct to call a shove or get your money in the middle as a 30/70 dog, or worse.
 
Top