$10 NLHEFull Ring: C betting in multiway pot

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Only been at the table for 6 or 7 hands. Obviously not expecting this many callers. SB seems fishy, played most hands so far.

Do we want to be c betting here? I don't think we will get them to all fold and if one of them has hit their King we are drawing to two nines to improve our hand or the 4 Aces that we could use to scare them off it.


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Dealt to Hero 9 9

fold, fold, fold, fold, CO calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.35, SB calls $0.30, BB calls $0.25, CO calls $0.25

FLOP ($1.40) 2 8 K

SB checks, BB checks, CO checks, Hero ?
 
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rllngn

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I think the right play is to put a feeler bet out there and see who calls, since hero raised preflop I believe the right play is to bet somewhere around .90 and if you get callers then go from there and see what the turn is. More then not they will not have a king and be chasing some runner runner hand lol. I couldn't see more then one person calling and if you get re raised it is a easy fold.
 
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fx20736

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What are the stats on the CO? The fact that he limped and then flat called a raise in a multiway pot means either he is a horrible player or is trapping/ set mining. This limp/ call raises is so rampant at 5/10 NL that it could just be a school of fish who all landed at the same table.

What is your table image? If you always c-bet when your raise preflop someone may check-raise here. Even though you have position there is an overcard and a flush draw on the table so by raising you may just be bloating a pot you will have to fold to on the turn or river when all you hold is an underpair. To me it seems more sensible to take the free card and see the turn. If the turn is a blank and it is checked around again on the turn fire off a decent sized bet. An unimproved middle pocket pair in a 4 -way pot is just not that strong of a hand to risk more money.

If the flop had been something like 10h8h2s giving you a backdoor flush and only one overcard with position I would fire off a decent bet here to try and take it down. If you get called hopefully you will have thinned down the field to one caller. Now if the turn improves your hand like another Heart or a 7 I would continue but if it did not improve I would fold to a turn bet. If your opp checks the turn and the river is a blank you probably have decent showdown value although I'm not trying to value bet here as opp may have a 10 in hand and really all you beat is something like A8, 98s,etc.
 
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baudib1

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There's a good chance your hand is still good here so I'd fire maybe a half-pot-sized bet out there. If you get called try to check it down.
 
bgomez89

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I'm OK with cbetting here
 
atlantafalcons0

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I like a slightly larger preflop raise (.50)

As played, I would c-bet this. Beware a third diamond or an ace on the turn....
 
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I'm OK with cbetting here

I like a slightly larger preflop raise (.50)

As played, I would c-bet this. Beware a third diamond or an ace on the turn....


So whats our plan when we get called or raised? Are we going to bet out again on the turn? If we are still against three players are we just shutting down?
 
atlantafalcons0

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I think if we get called and don't improve by the turn we should c/f the rest of the way....Of course we only have 2 outs to improve and one of the nines is a diamond.

I think we should take a shot at the pot on the flop and if anyone shows resistance by raising we should probably fold.

I personally would only bet the turn too if it was the nine of spades unless only one player calls and the turn is a non-diamond.

Too many variables in this hand to have a definitive course of action.
 
WVHillbilly

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I like betting that flop. FDs will call you as well as some smaller pairs and since you have position you can play a smaller pot by checking the turn.

If our hand was better say QQ (especially with a diamond) I check the flop but with 99 there are just too many bad cards that can hit on the turn. I bet .90 and fold if raised. Check the turn if called and worry about calling or folding on the river based on how ugly the board gets, river bet size, which villain bets , etc.
 
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Ok, so now most have said they would bet out on the flop but be careful on the turn and river. Some say check folding is best. On the turn I get bet into, it is only 1/3 pot bet but the SB did seem to be pretty fishy. Are you folding this now?

If your plan is to check/fold or fold to later aggression shouldn't you be shutting down on the flop rather than investing more money into the hand?



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SB ($6.63)
BB ($12.06)
UTG ($10.50)
UTG+1 ($12.92)
UTG+2 ($10)
MP1 ($6.20)
CO ($5.66)
Hero ($10.78)

Dealt to Hero 9 9

fold, fold, fold, fold, CO calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.35, SB calls $0.30, BB calls $0.25, CO calls $0.25

FLOP ($1.40) 2 8 K

SB checks, BB checks, CO checks, Hero bets $0.80, SB calls $0.80, BB folds, CO folds

TURN ($3) 2 8 K 3

SB bets $1, Hero ??
 
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baudib1

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Ok, so now most have said they would bet out on the flop but be careful on the turn and river. Some say check folding is best. On the turn I get bet into, it is only 1/3 pot bet but the SB did seem to be pretty fishy. Are you folding this now?

If your plan is to check/fold or fold to later aggression shouldn't you be shutting down on the flop rather than investing more money into the hand?



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Folding here is OK, but how exactly was he fishy?

Betting on the flop still serves plenty of purposes. For one, it has a non-zero chance of folding out a better hand (TT-JJ might fold this flop). Two, it folds out hands that whiffed but still have equity against us. Over half the deck is bad for us.
 
WVHillbilly

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Ok, so now most have said they would bet out on the flop but be careful on the turn and river. Some say check folding is best. On the turn I get bet into, it is only 1/3 pot bet but the SB did seem to be pretty fishy. Are you folding this now?

If your plan is to check/fold or fold to later aggression shouldn't you be shutting down on the flop rather than investing more money into the hand?



Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.10(BB) Replayer
SB ($6.63)
BB ($12.06)
UTG ($10.50)
UTG+1 ($12.92)
UTG+2 ($10)
MP1 ($6.20)
CO ($5.66)
Hero ($10.78)

Dealt to Hero 9 9

fold, fold, fold, fold, CO calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.35, SB calls $0.30, BB calls $0.25, CO calls $0.25

FLOP ($1.40) 2 8 K

SB checks, BB checks, CO checks, Hero bets $0.80, SB calls $0.80, BB folds, CO folds

TURN ($3) 2 8 K 3

SB bets $1, Hero ??

His bet is so small that I would basically never fold. I think FDs trying to set the price are a decent portion of his range along with weak Kings. I call.
 
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How can you not expect this many callers when your iso-raise is so tiny and you play 10nl?

From my experience so far at 10NL a 3.5bb raise over a limper has generally been enough to get the blinds out of the pot. You will occasionally get more callers but wouldn't you expect that at any level?

Folding here is OK, but how exactly was he fishy?

Betting on the flop still serves plenty of purposes. For one, it has a non-zero chance of folding out a better hand (TT-JJ might fold this flop). Two, it folds out hands that whiffed but still have equity against us. Over half the deck is bad for us.

I had seen him play 7 hands. He had called 5 of them pre flop and check folded all but one on the flop or later. I would not expect him to know anything about bet sizing.

You say teat a c bet on the flop will fold out some hands, but will it make all 3 fold enough of the time to show profit? As you say, over half the deck is bad for us so we really don't want to be playing in an inflated pot with a marginal hand do we?
 
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His bet is so small that I would basically never fold. I think FDs trying to set the price are a decent portion of his range along with weak Kings. I call.


The turn bet is crap so I call aswell. Although I'm not trying to get info about the turn, more interested in the flop and why a c bet is better than a check. Let's say this villain was a solid reg who bets out $2.30 on the turn, would you still call this or fold? And if you want to fold why didn't we just check the flop?
 
WVHillbilly

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The turn bet is crap so I call aswell. Although I'm not trying to get info about the turn, more interested in the flop and why a c bet is better than a check. Let's say this villain was a solid reg who bets out $2.30 on the turn, would you still call this or fold? And if you want to fold why didn't we just check the flop?

I like betting that flop. FDs will call you as well as some smaller pairs and since you have position you can play a smaller pot by checking the turn.

If our hand was better say QQ (especially with a diamond) I check the flop but with 99 there are just too many bad cards that can hit on the turn. I bet .90 and fold if raised. Check the turn if called and worry about calling or folding on the river based on how ugly the board gets, river bet size, which villain bets , etc.

Already answered and if he bets pot or close on the turn you fold.
 
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baudib1

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You say teat a c bet on the flop will fold out some hands, but will it make all 3 fold enough of the time to show profit? As you say, over half the deck is bad for us so we really don't want to be playing in an inflated pot with a marginal hand do we?

Yes. Since we didn't flop the immortal nuts, there's a chance we're beat. But while somewhat thin this is clearly a bet on the flop. If the flop came AKT with two diamonds, the board is so horrible for us we could simply check-fold our marginal showdown value.

This is a board that we still have a chance to be best, and we can get value from worse hands and fold better hands. So it's clearly a bet. Anytime you get someone to fold a hand that has equity in the pot, you profit. Anytime you get worse hands (draws, 8x) to put money in the pot, you profit.
 
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ComplexPlaya

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From my experience so far at 10NL a 3.5bb raise over a limper has generally been enough to get the blinds out of the pot. You will occasionally get more callers but wouldn't you expect that at any level?

I don't like the way you think about it. 99 is way ahead of the calling range of a normal 10 nl-er, so you have position and a better hand, why do you want them to fold?

Bet more to try and get only CO to call for more value (that's why it's called isolating, you're isolating 1 player) because you don't want 3 or 4 players in the pot usually.

If you're afraid to cbet without top pair plus, you're missing some value (not that much at 10NL probably considering you'll have to cbet air that gets called by third pair etc.) and more importantly you're not going to get paid enough on your big hands.

Speaking from experience here, was getting frustrating by all the light floats and tried playing a strictly fit/fold game, didn't work because of lack of action on my made hands, from the same fish that were calling stacks in with crap-all vs other players. Could be cognitive bias etc. but I think it happened enough to discount it all being a coincidence.

As a rule, try to have some outs when you cbet a fish even on dry boards, 2 overs will do. Or if the board is something like QJQ I would cbet complete air too.
 
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