$10 NLHE Heads-up: Flopping set multiway, 400bbs deep

IPlay

IPlay

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Villain was interesting to say the least. His cbet was only 38%(5/13) and AFq 49. He jammed this stack against me in another hand were a lot of straights were possible. He was betting big a lot but judging by his stack, he was showing the good downs alot too.

What do you guys think of flop?

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): $43.15
SB: $9.70 (VPIP: 34.48, PFR: 26.42, 3Bet Preflop: 10.87, hands: 125)
BB: $10.00 (VPIP: 25.95, PFR: 21.88, 3Bet Preflop: 14.81, Hands: 142)
UTG: $8.90 (VPIP: 17.48, PFR: 16.79, 3Bet Preflop: 9.43, Hands: 147)
MP: $38.28 (VPIP: 36.19, PFR: 27.27, 3Bet Preflop: 11.11, Hands: 107)
CO: $13.12 (VPIP: 25.25, PFR: 20.59, 3Bet Preflop: 9.47, Hands: 517)

SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has 7:heart: 7:diamond:

fold, MP raises to $0.35, CO calls $0.35, Hero calls $0.35, SB calls $0.30, fold

Flop: ($1.50, 4 players) 7:spade: 8:heart: J:club:
SB checks, MP checks, CO bets $0.84, Hero calls $0.84, fold, MP raises to $4.79, CO calls $3.95, Hero calls $3.95

Turn: ($15.87, 3 players) 4:club:
MP bets $33.14 and is all-in, fold, Hero ???
 
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braveslice

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Hard, his range might look something like this: {QQ+,T9s,65s,8c7c,T9o,JdTh,JdTs,JdTc,JhTd,JhTs,JhTc,JsTd,JsTh,JsTc}
 
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Papier24

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I guess I would raise on the flop. You can get value from alot of straight draws, some two pairs or top pairs.

I think calling on the turn is a quite difficult decision. Even though he's an aggressive player I don't really believe JT is in his range. He would kinda turn his top pair into a bluff. Don't think he has QQ+ in his range either since he would most likely 3bet this hand.

So you can beat 87, J8s. But with what bluffs would he raise two players on the flop ? 56 is now a straight too. Would he go this crazy with 96s or even just a gutshot draw like 98 or T8? Not really likely too.
I really don't see alot of hands you can beat. So I would probably suggest folding here.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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You get in the grossest spots.
 
duckyfAL

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Why you call his check raise?, I think he has 9ts, or JJ thats why he could check on the flop, anyway I prefer to get a cooler i mean you lose against jj t9 and 88, and he is aggressive he is gonna do that with two pair or aj, what happen?
 
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C3H6S

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he raise short!!!! for $$ im not believe very short
 
c9h13no3

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Yeah, this is likely a fold, 88 and 9T all smack his flatting range. But this is why LAGs get paid.
 
IPlay

IPlay

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Whoops, don't know why I labeled this as heads up.

You get in the grossest spots.

I really do. Probably because I play in a player pool where the average player is 25/20 with 8-9% 3b. I need to find a different site tbh but I really use online as a learning tool so I don't mind the tough pool to get better overall.

Hard, his range might look something like this: {QQ+,T9s,65s,8c7c,T9o,JdTh,JdTs,JdTc,JhTd,JhTs,JhTc,JsTd,JsTh,JsTc}

Probably the toughest part about this hand. What does he play like this? I don't see JT doing this and I think QQ+ probably just cbets and doesn't x/raise. But really, whotf knows.

I guess I would raise on the flop. You can get value from alot of straight draws, some two pairs or top pairs.

I think calling on the turn is a quite difficult decision. Even though he's an aggressive player I don't really believe JT is in his range. He would kinda turn his top pair into a bluff. Don't think he has QQ+ in his range either since he would most likely 3bet this hand.

So you can beat 87, J8s. But with what bluffs would he raise two players on the flop ? 56 is now a straight too. Would he go this crazy with 96s or even just a gutshot draw like 98 or T8? Not really likely too.
I really don't see alot of hands you can beat. So I would probably suggest folding here.

Villain raised first in. I thought about raising pre for value but really didn't want to bloat the pot because I'm sure once villain calls, the other calls too. I also thought about raising the flop but I think calling is also fine since it went 4 way to the flop. 2 villains have all T9o, all 3 have T9s, all 3 have 88, and RFI has JJ. I also get a lot of information by flatting flop because if the action gets crazy, like it did I can fold. I really wanted to fold the flop tbh. I do think raising flop is good tho but so is calling. 88 I probably play a lot different.

I think villain just has the nutters here and killed his action, if he bets 70% turn and jams river I probably call down. If I have 88, I call. AP I folded to the jam. I just don't think I can put in 300bbs on a turn with the 4th nuts. Well, 5th nuts but I don't think 76s is in his range AP.

I need 40% to call the turn jam so I'm going to guess his range in a calc but it is pure guesstimation at work.

http://www.power-equilab.com
Board: 7s8hJc4c
equity Win Tie
MP2 38.93% 38.93% 0.00% { 7d7h }
MP3 61.07% 61.07% 0.00% { AA, JJ, 88, J8s, T9s, 87s, T9o }

So he would have to show up with 10/18 over pair combos for this to be a break even call. So I guess I'm fine with the fold because I don't think he plays many over pairs like this. His line is just super nutted with his sizings and aggression into 2 players. But he could just be a level 1 thinker that is only thinking about his hand. I wish I could see the hands 24 hours later like on ignition.
 
IPlay

IPlay

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Interesting take on this hand. The author of this article says this is in general, a fold pre. He also says to fold flop after CO calls. Hard for me to understand this but he is a much better player then I am and beats tough games. I get the folding flop part, which I thought about doing but assumed it would be too nitty. But folding pre is pretty baffling but after reading the article it makes a little more sense.

https://www.upswingpoker.com/multiway-pot-preflop-squeezing-leaks/

enjoy
 
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braveslice

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The fold would be more obvious in first post against passive fish, tag or nit. However MP in hero’s hand is 36/27/11. Even if we note that this is 5 handed he is very aggressive pre. Given this is 10NL there are no good lag, and we have to assume he is bad one making him quite unpredictable. Comments about plays making sense in this topic are dangerous (right or wrong) because you are pushing your ideas to his play logic, he is using his own and hero’s job is to try to comply.

Edit - I just go a Great idea Agro simulator:
Drink 1.5 liters beer, no toilet. Start playing poker. You are free to go to toilet after you have won or lost 4 buy-ins. You can drink more if you want during play.



Well he star by saying: "The old-school approach to multiway pots was to enter with many speculative hands hoping to win big when you hit. This might work against a table full of weaker players,"

Meaning microstakes are out of his analysis.

Secondly deep stack post flop only reasonable hands to play are draw hands. 400bb deep I sigh-sad if someone calls me when I open AA. Squeese? Who cares this deep ;) Even 4bet is not that bad, let say 4bet size is 2.40, that is 6% of stack, much less than typical 3x 3bet against 100bb stack (9%).
 
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Papier24

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Interesting take on this hand. The author of this article says this is in general, a fold pre. He also says to fold flop after CO calls. Hard for me to understand this but he is a much better player then I am and beats tough games. I get the folding flop part, which I thought about doing but assumed it would be too nitty. But folding pre is pretty baffling but after reading the article it makes a little more sense.

https://www.upswingpoker.com/multiway-pot-preflop-squeezing-leaks/

enjoy
At which part of the article does he say that we should fold 77 pre ? Actually he suggests that medium pocket pairs are most likely a call in multiway pots due to the chances of hitting a set.
 
IPlay

IPlay

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At which part of the article does he say that we should fold 77 pre ? Actually he suggests that medium pocket pairs are most likely a call in multiway pots due to the chances of hitting a set.

Section 1.4 of the article is spooky similar to this hand. A large part of it comes from the possibility of squeezes from the blinds and rio of flopping bottom set. And I joined Upswing Poker and posted this hand to their FB group and the author commented on it. I so thought he was trolling when he said fold pre that I called him a dick for trolling

I can get behind what you are saying too Brave and I probably won't fold 77 in exact spot pre but maybe in the future against a couple decent regs.
 
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KFlint

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Well he star by saying: "The old-school approach to multiway pots was to enter with many speculative hands hoping to win big when you hit. This might work against a table full of weaker players,"

Meaning microstakes are out of his analysis.
.

Yeah I also read this article recently and while very interesting it mostly applies to very tough games. You can happily open all pp multiway on 888 30 or even 50NL for example ecause you won't get squeeze out of the pot that often and some people are just terrible postflop. If you have good agressive regs on the button or the blinds, then it's common sense to be tighter while flatting.

10NL is tougher than this on many sites but still, don't think this article applies completely to the micros.
 
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