$10 NLHE Full Ring: Unsure about QTs flat call and my post-flop play

M

mrosata

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Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 17.4/14.8/38.8

Hi, the past few weeks I hadn't been flat calling many hands. I was trying to keep a tight ratio VPIP to PFR, so I'd end sessions with numbers like 22/22, 18.5/18.5 or 13/13, not that those were my goals or anything, just information. Now I want to get in more flat calls so I begin to find some spots.
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My question in this hand is whether I made a good flat call pre-flop, and how was my post-flop play? I figure that the way I play a hand after flat calling is going to be different than how I'd play if I was the pre-flop aggressor.
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Please also pay attention to the river, as I'm not certain that was correct either. OK, show time, a bit of backstory on our main characters:
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UTG=( VPIP/PFR: 17.4/14.8, 3Bet: 6.5, Agg: 38.8 )
Hero=( VPIP/PFR: 22.0/19.2, 3Bet: 8.0, Agg: 49.0 )
SB=( VPIP/PFR: 46.3/14.6, 3Bet: 6.7, Agg: 37.2 )
**only 41 hands in the SB sample**
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NL Holdem $0.1(BB)
MP ($10)
MP ($10.99)
HERO ($20.36)
CO ($11.53)
BTN ($6.03)
SB ($10)
BB ($5.08)
UTG ($10.68)
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Dealt to Hero T Q
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UTG Raises To $0.35 (Rem. Stack: 10.33), MP Folds, MP Folds, HERO Calls $0.35 (Rem. Stack: 20.01), CO Folds, BTN Folds, SB Calls $0.3 (Rem. Stack: 9.65), BB Folds
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Flop ($1.15) 5 2 Q
SB Bets $1.09 (Rem. Stack: 8.56), UTG Raises To $2.18 (Rem. Stack: 8.15), HERO Calls $2.18 (Rem. Stack: 17.83), SB Calls $1.09 (Rem. Stack: 7.47)
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Turn ($7.69) 5 2 Q 3
SB Checks, UTG Checks, HERO Bets $3.64 (Rem. Stack: 14.19), SB Calls $3.64 (Rem. Stack: 3.83), UTG Folds
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River ($14.97) 5 2 Q 3 6
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[FONT=Lato, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD Poker Tracking Software


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John A

John A

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Not trying to be brutal, but every street was butchered except the river.

Pre-flop, fold. You shouldn't be flatting this hand vs. and UTG opener unless he's really loose, which this guy is the opposite of.

On the flop that should have been the easiest fold for you. No idea why you're betting the turn. You played the river correct though. :)
 
M

mrosata

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John, thanks for taking the time to comment! I appreciate the advice :)

I got different advice regarding the turn, throwing numbers from the hand in HoldEq and Equilab, and trying to refine the other players' ranges, it doesn't seem to be ev-, although regardless of the numbers, I suppose my only 2 reasons for raising on the turn could have been:
1. to get the fish to fold, which he's not going to fold so that could be a bad play
2. get more value on the hand, which looking at the hand it might not seem like that would happen either.


That particular fish lost almost $40 in 20 minutes playing some crazy hands, so I had a feeling I would win that pot, and all worked out, but I'm trying to play poker, not feelings.


Thanks again for taking the time to comment. I won't be playing that particular hand again in these conditions, and I will take all of the other advice into consideration as well
 
c9h13no3

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Preflop is debatable, but the flop & turn are pretty brutal. It took some serious optimism to think TPNK is worth playing a 150 bb pot.
 
M

mrosata

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Alright, thanks for the advice. Maybe I've been playing my post flops too aggressive. Normally I wouldn't get involved in a hand like this... but the post-flop play isn't uncommon to the way I play. So I might have to rethink my post-flop play a bit
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Alright, thanks for the advice. Maybe I've been playing my post flops too aggressive. Normally I wouldn't get involved in a hand like this... but the post-flop play isn't uncommon to the way I play. So I might have to rethink my post-flop play a bit
Read about stack to pot ratio. In this hand, the SPR is 8, not close to territory where you'd feel comfortable playing a big pot with TPNK.
 
Figaroo2

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Yeah have to back John up here. There are basic misunderstandings of position and relative hand strength. I'd drop down to lower stakes whilst you experiment with calling ranges.It's always going to be very player dependent but try to keep your flatting to the button and CO to start with making sure you have passive players in the blinds who aren't inclined to squeeze.
 
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RakeMyLife

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I don't disagree with flatting pre here, but I also don't mind flatting generally as long as you can accurately gauge the strength of your hand postflop.

Therefore... biggest mistakes to me are postflop. QJ suited multi-way should really only be played for two pair or better. When you face a bet and a raise, that's your signal to get out. Sure, you may be pushed off some weak combo draws occasionally, but I think it's +EV long run.

As played, turn should absolutely be a check behind unless you have really good info on your opponents to know they will fold. You have good showdown equity, and not much else.
 
Verdue167

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QT is a trouble hand as it is dominated often. If you want to start smooth calling with it, do it only in position. So that's the good news for this hand :)I would def. fold the flop here, as a pot size donk bet from a loose player is usually strenght (TPGK or better), especially when UTG ( who is tight and early pos.) raises and the board is very dry. UTG has AQ QK maybe even QQ KK AA . I don't expect a player like this to raise 55 or 22 UTG. Turn: I would not put money in the pot here(reason: see flop), but as played, you may put UTG of a hand, not the loose player (as happened).
 
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