$10 NLHE Full Ring: QQ in the cut off. Facing small blind 3 bet raise.

F

FOLDORBUSTEM

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$10 NL HE Full Ring: QQ in the cut off. Facing small blind 3 bet raise.

full tilt poker Game #20828957925: Table Mach 10 - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 9:30:28 ET - 2010/05/14
Seat 1: Zhumma ($3.85)
Seat 2: Whovillain ($4.25)
Seat 3: mimi1314 ($2.23)
Seat 4: FOLDORBUSTEM ($12.06)
Seat 5: hintch ($3.40)
Seat 6: dami-aljo ($11.30)
Seat 7: Trizzy85 ($6.38)
Seat 8: yozey_walez ($10.35)
Seat 9: Gheecko2 ($4.05)
dami-aljo posts the small blind of $0.05
Trizzy85 posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to FOLDORBUSTEM [Qh Qc]
yozey_walez folds
Gheecko2 folds
Zhumma folds
Whovillain folds
mimi1314 folds
FOLDORBUSTEM raises to $0.35
hintch folds
dami-aljo raises to $1.15
Trizzy85 folds
FOLDORBUSTEM calls $0.80
*** FLOP *** [5c 2d 9h]
dami-aljo bets $2.40
FOLDORBUSTEM calls $2.40
*** TURN *** [5c 2d 9h] [2h]
dami-aljo bets $7.20
FOLDORBUSTEM has 15 seconds left to act
FOLDORBUSTEM has requested TIME

I Am thinking he might have KA here, I probably should of 3 bet pre flop.
At he time I was 4 tabling so I make more mistakes.
I would love some imput on how someone else would of played it, and if they would call the turn bet, almost all in for the guy.
 
thepokerkid123

thepokerkid123

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If you shoved, I really like the way you played the hand.

Pre-flop I like the call. 4betting kills a lot of action and your equity isn't great afterwards, calling puts QQ at the absolute top of your range so your hand is under represented and it's just a matter of value towning him post-flop.
Once you call pre-flop you have to be willing to stack vs AA/KK because he will think any overpair is the nuts post-flop, same with TPTK. It's a 3bet pot and your range is weak.

Flop, standard call. Once you do this when he shoves he'll be giving you 2:1 on the call, this roughly means that there has to be twice as many value hands as bluff hands for you to fold... in other words, you're not folding an overpair to it, ever.


I Am thinking he might have KA here, I probably should of 3 bet pre flop.
How do you get AK?
I believe it's in his range, but it's a tiny part of his range.
 
Stu_Ungar

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What were his 3-bet stats like form the blinds? if they were 10% + and he was aggressive post-flop I would just stack off. without an ace on the board and if he has 99 then its just a cooler, but a set would normally check the flop faining weakness.

If his 3-bet stat was low and it didnt look like he made 3-bet moves from the blinds I would probably fold QQ.

It depends on the player type but there are a lot of players with 3-bet stats of around 3% TBH the 3-bet so infrequently that I would just fold all but AA and KK because you will run into AA KK AK and QQ far mor often than you run into AQ JJ and TT (they arent 3betting many of these).

So my decision would be based on his 3bet stat preflop and post flop agression.
 
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FOLDORBUSTEM

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Ok so I guess I might do some things right after all. :)

Still have to work on alot of other faults, one at a time as I come across them.

:party:
 
Stu_Ungar

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If you shoved, I really like the way you played the hand.

Pre-flop I like the call. 4betting kills a lot of action and your equity isn't great afterwards, calling puts QQ at the absolute top of your range so your hand is under represented and it's just a matter of value towning him post-flop.
Once you call pre-flop you have to be willing to stack vs AA/KK because he will think any overpair is the nuts post-flop, same with TPTK. It's a 3bet pot and your range is weak.

Flop, standard call. Once you do this when he shoves he'll be giving you 2:1 on the call, this roughly means that there has to be twice as many value hands as bluff hands for you to fold... in other words, you're not folding an overpair to it, ever.



How do you get AK?
I believe it's in his range, but it's a tiny part of his range.

I agree with what you are saying .. but he really needs to be sure QQ is way ahead of villians 3 betting range, if its close its not worth under repping a hand because as you say, if you under rep an overpair against an aggressive opponent you are 100% committed to calling him down unless an over-card comes.

All I'm really trying to stress is that QQ is not ahead of a lot of 10NL villians 3-betting range they just dont 3-bet so the first question is, is QQ ahead? and not just margionally ahead.

There are a lot of players who are fairly lose but are absolute nits when it comes to 3-betting. So when they 3-bet you arent dealing with the lose player you are dealing with his 3bet nit alter ego!.
 
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At the time my pc was making strange noises and holdem manager crashed 1 min before this hand, so I had no stats on the guy.

Yes if it was working and I had an idea if he was a nit that only 3 bets out of the sb 3% then would of been tempted to fold.

But as I didn't , I had to put him on some ranges and go with my gut feelings. So I shoved the turn thinking I was ahead.
 
Stu_Ungar

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At the time my pc was making strange noises and holdem manager crashed 1 min before this hand, so I had no stats on the guy.

Yes if it was working and I had an idea if he was a nit that only 3 bets out of the sb 3% then would of been tempted to fold.

But as I didn't , I had to put him on some ranges and go with my gut feelings. So I shoved the turn thinking I was ahead.

TBH against the AVERAGE 10NL player I would have folded PF.

Most are not playing back all that light.

If he looked spewy then I would give him a wide range, but with no info and 3bb invested in the pot I would probably fold.

The average 10NL player is a 3betting nit regardless of their other stats and the average 10NL player playes fit or fold in a 3-bet pot.

What are the odds that this particular player is anything other than average? Like you said you had no stats so you had to play him as an unknown, but you have assigned this unknown a wider than average PF range and a higher than average post flop aggression factor.

The results of the hand are incidental, the important thinh is how you make decisions in the hand and it very much sounds like your decision was based on the fact that you held QQ and less on what your opponents 3-bet range was.
 
ljove

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U don't have stats about him :-(
Lot of players raise with air from SB
You should raise him preflop
 
Stu_Ungar

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U don't have stats about him :-(
Lot of players raise with air from SB
You should raise him preflop

Really? At 10NL???

How do ther manage to reguraly raise with air from the SB and keep their SB 3bet stats under 5%?
 
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