$10 NLHE Full Ring: QQ on the button, Did i play it right ?

$10 NL HE Full Ring: QQ on the button, Did i play it right ?

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 35/3/3.3

Stacks:
* pllayboy with $8.71
* BTN with $11.50
* SB with $11.09
* BB with $9.56
* UTG with $19.75
* UTG+1 with $10.00
* MP1 with $19.65
* MP2 with $10.00
* MP3 with $10.75




Blinds: $0.00/$0.00
Site: full tilt poker
Dealt to BTN:Q♥ Q♠
* * Sklansky group 1
Preflop:
* * 3 players fold.
* * MP3 raises to $0.30
* * pllayboy calls [$0.30] Hero raises to $1.50
* * 2 players fold.
* * MP3 calls [$1.20]
* * pllayboy calls [$1.20]
* * Total folds this street: 5
* * Potsize: $4.65
Flop: 3♣ 4♠ J♠
* * MP3 checks
* * pllayboy checks Hero bets [$3.50]
* * 1 players fold.
* * pllayboy calls [$3.50]
* * Total folds this street: 1
* * Potsize: $11.65
Turn: 8♠
* * pllayboy checks Hero bets [$6.50] and is All in


The results have been hidden.

Poker Hand Converter By Cardschat.com Poker Forum

sample on villain is 35 hands
sample on MP3 is 70 hands (16/14/inf)

I wake up on the BTN with pocket Q's facing a raise from MP3 and a cold call from CO. I 3-bet to 5*raise and get called by both. Flop brings nothing especially dangerous and I won't show weakness and check behind so I bet 3/4 pot, making them pay for a FD. On the turn, the FD hits but villain checks.

Now I suppose I'm pretty much pot commited on the turn and decide to shove AI since the pot is already so big and my hand might be the best (I think I only need 33% equity to justify the shove, correct me if I'm wrong), seeing his check on the turn...

What do you think ?

TIA,

ARU

If you are going to cold call a 3bet then your plan should be to shove the flop.

Your villain should be almost 100% to make a c-bet, thus the c-bet itself dosen't represent huge strength.

This way if he has you beat, you still have outs. You can also do this occasionally as a bluff.

Stu_Ungar said:

If you are going to cold call a 3bet then your plan should be to shove the flop........................

Click to expand...

um... are you discussing villain strategy here? apparently this does not apply to the hand in question for the hero...

(edit) oh, sorry, i should have probably posted my take:
i totally do not like the turn push. this is not even a semi-bluff, it is a complete bluff, because we are never getting value out of hands that we beat, and we have 0 to 2 outs when we get called (presumably by a flush or a set). check the turn behind and see what the river brings - then call a reasonable bet by the villain who may have AJ or similar type of hands. and if a 4th spade hits, you have the 2nd or 3rd best hand possible.

I agree checking the turn is correct but you are going to have to call a shove on the river as villian only has $3.71 behind and you will be getting better than 4:1 on a call. You aren't throwing away a Q high flush for that price, especially against a very aggressive opponent.

benevg said:

um... are you discussing villain strategy here? apparently this does not apply to the hand in question for the hero...

Click to expand...

Sorry, when I read the HH, for some reason I read it as the hero called the 3bet rather than the villian

I like betting a little closer to pot on the flop. And well, I'm in favor of shoving the turn. We're getting value from QJ, JT, KJ, AJ. Don't think Villain has AA, KK from his calling on the flop.

I say shove.

edge-t said:

I like betting a little closer to pot on the flop. And well, I'm in favor of shoving the turn. We're getting value from QJ, JT, KJ, AJ. Don't think Villain has AA, KK from his calling on the flop.

I say shove.

Click to expand...

One pair hands are very unlikely to call when the flush card hits the turn. By checking we can possibly induce one pair hands to bluff off their stacks.

One pair hands would call if he has a spade in them--Kings and Aces with spades would. Price is too attractive to not call. We can't check behind on a board like this.

let's say the A,K,Q of spades will call with a flush draw and top pair, debatable but that is your position and I will accept it for now. There are 36 combinations of AJ, KJ, and QJ hand respectively. Of those 36 hand combinations per your comment villian will only call with 33% of them. AsJd, AsJh, AsJc, KsJd, KsJh, KsJc, QsJd, QsJh, QsJc. It is far more likely that he won't call than he will based solely on that. that is why checking the turn is better. Nevermind the times we are actually already behind.

Betting the turn makes it far more likely that the villian play us correctly, folding hands that we beat (66% of the time) and calling when we are behind.

So from what I read, there are reasons to shove on the turn and others to check-behind.

Turns out btw he had TT with a spade...

And I'm starting to think that every single "significant" hand I play is always badly played... Looks like I still have a bunch of things to learn...

Why shove ? This is the most stupid thing to do. You will get called and possibly make money only from people who hold A or K of spades and no spade hits the river..

You will be called with a better hand than yours in all other cases. If the villian has a weaker hand - he won't call. (I saw that you got called but villain did it because he had no chips left and the pot was very big.. if he had a bigger stack he would have folded his Tens)

You are definitely pot committed and you will have to call his all-in if he does it, but you should think about the cases when villian has weaker hand and decides to bluff. Let him bluff the river by checking.

You must always think how to extract more cash from the opponent !

Good luck at the tables

bet pot (or overpot) on the turn.
all-in is simple decision, and u can get a same call, because you open yours hand & opp has outs to close his draw

Always_Raise_U said:

And I'm starting to think that every single "significant" hand I play is always badly played...

Click to expand...

well, some people disagreed with my analysis, but really - when a scary card hits (however committed you are - because villain may not know that he is committed) and you push, who would call you except someone with a very good hand? while if you check behind, you let villain bet into you on the river with nothing as a bluff, or if he doesn't, you can always bet for value then...

all in all, you can be certain that villain played that hand waaaay worse than you did and all this is just to give you more ideas for the next time you have a similar hand, not necessarily to criticize your current play.

Always_Raise_U said:

Looks like I still have a bunch of things to learn...

Click to expand...

well, if it makes you feel better, this is true for everyone who commented in this thread... and will be also true for just about everyone practically forever so no worries, better play comes mostly with experience and studying, and this requires a lot of time.

Always_Raise_U said:

And I'm starting to think that every single "significant" hand I play is always badly played... Looks like I still have a bunch of things to learn...

Click to expand...

Honestly i believe you played this hand perfectly. At least I play it exactly the same.

Hand played well. The turn shove is for half the pot people. Villain is going to call with plenty of inferior hands.

I may not have played this correctly either but I would have put out a pot sized bet on flop hoping the odds are too bad for a flush draw to call. If there still is a caller - and at these limits I'm not surprised TT called - people with over pairs tend to get married to their hands - then I would have checked the 3rd spade falling on the turn. Of course if he shoves you have a tough decision to make.

Pafkata said:

Why shove ? This is the most stupid thing to do. You will get called and possibly make money only from people who hold A or K of spades and no spade hits the river..

You will be called with a better hand than yours in all other cases. If the villian has a weaker hand - he won't call. (I saw that you got called but villain did it because he had no chips left and the pot was very big.. if he had a bigger stack he would have folded his Tens)

Click to expand...

^^
but he didn't

FWIW, I would've played it the same as you did here.

BelgoSuisse said:

Honestly i believe you played this hand perfectly. At least I play it exactly the same.

Click to expand...

Agreed. I've played a lot of 10nl and this is pretty much the exact line I take here. No sense in letting them bluffbet their stacks away when they'll generally bluffcall much more often.