$10 NLHE Full Ring: KK preflop (no, i'm not a retard)

OMGITSOVER9K

OMGITSOVER9K

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pokerstars - $0.10 NL (9 max) - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3: http://www.pokertracker.com

Hero (SB): $10.84
BB: $10.15
UTG: $11.12
UTG+1: $12.55
MP: $8.82
MP+1: $3.94
CO: $6.78
BTN: $17.85

Hero posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero has Kc Kd

fold, fold, fold, fold, CO raises to $0.20, BTN raises to $0.50, Hero raises to $1.40, fold, CO raises to $2.30, BTN raises to $5.20..

hero?

how much do we hate this spot, or is it an easy jam/fold?

the small 3 bet honestly scared me quite a bit here, and figured out of the 2 of them wanting to stack off pre AA will show up quite a bit.

Bleh. :goodnight
 
dwbrown7680

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Ehh without reads here this is an easy stack off, you're going to have more than enough equity to justify the call/shove.
 
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zippyzip

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Never fold KK preflop for 100bb.
 
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Sori

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Without specific reads I am shoving here everytime. You will run into AA every once in a while, but you will run into hands that you have crushed (AK/QQ/JJ) enough of the time to make it a profitable call i think. Not to mention those times that you run into a middle pocket pair, KQs, or another stupid hand to be going all-in with.
 
TheGenera1

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Well I too would fold this, because there is no way BTN is doing this with QQ or less. He either has KK or AA, so at best it's a split.

Im a huge nit, so just ignore me :D
 
dooydoo

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i think i would fold. Mostly because min 5b and min 6b are probably nutted.

i ran stove with KK vs AK and QQ+ 3way and you are about 36%, they other guys have 32% so its not like a slam dunk easy money spot.

"Never fold KK preflop for 100bb."

i think this is false. A simple example is a villain playing 5/5 with a 0,8% 3b over a large sample. Are you stacking off vs him with KK when he 3b you?

The only hand i dont think you can fold pre is AA. Theres a time and place to fold KK and i think this would be one for me.
 
OMGITSOVER9K

OMGITSOVER9K

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Sick spot.

right?

I might be a bit paranoid since I'm running into the top of everyone's range with KK atm, but I think the rule of stacking KK regardless everytime is a bad one.

There's been a couple of times I should've folded KK preflop but followed that rule anyway and my win rates suffered for it.
 
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baudib1

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Without specific reads I am shoving here everytime. You will run into AA every once in a while...

This is hilarifying.. The odds of both players having AA, or worse, AA and KK, are about 20 times more likely than both of them having AK/QQ.

This is 10NL FR, do you think villains are going to be min 5-betting/6-betting wide? ROFLz.
 
dwbrown7680

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Son of a bitch, yet another post where I fail to comprehend the words full and ring in the post. Oh well. I'd stack off here in 6m all day but in FR yeah this is probably one of the easiest folds you'll ever have with Kings.
 
acky100

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Ugh have i just been levelled? Yeh hope i have. Dont worry DW, think we've just been levelled.

edit: wait a minute.. Are you part of the levelling DW? ****.

edit2: Fist pump fold.
 
dwbrown7680

dwbrown7680

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Ugh have i just been levelled? Yeh hope i have. Dont worry DW, think we've just been levelled.

edit: wait a minute.. Are you part of the levelling DW? ****.

edit2: Fist pump fold.


hahahaha
 
bgomez89

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I never thought I'd see a time to fold kk pre but without specific reads this could be a time when id consider it
 
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RamdeeBen

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Instincts says fold to me here too...I think you can't help think one has aces here...The problem is, I can't ever find a fold for Kings in most cases regardless of if they are nits. Nits will stack Queens/A,K often enough + it depends on your image too.

I think you "should" fold purely because this is full ring, I think theres argument to never fold here at 6max but I can't help calling even FR and seeing Aces lol. It's an easy shove vs the short stack CO but I can't see the bigger stack raising light here and essentially committing you unless of course he is one of those big stacks who just love getting it in with any Aces and has redic high stats.

Then again...looking at the stack sizes, it could well be very possibly BTN is isoing the small stack in the CO and could be wider here...tough spot, I think I just jam regardless vs two people and be like "oh well, standard AcesvsKings spot" ;)AND.... you might be ahead of buttons iso raise here and at least get the big stacks chips.
 
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baudib1

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If the bigger stack wanted to ISO vs. shorty and max FE he would shove. This type of action of small 6-betting is AA like 100% of the time from players at this level, who have non-existent bluff ranges in this spot.
 
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RamdeeBen

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Fair points.

I agree to fold but ufm...I'd struggle to do it. I think I've done it once in cash games..vs someone I'd never played a single hand with, with 6/3 stats over like 300 hands.
 
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redvulture61

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This is a an easy call in my opinion without piror reads or knowledge of how others play. But honestly, i don't think folding was a terrible play. This is a sick spot to be in and it does arise occasionally. Furthermore, you have to bare in mind that the standard of play at 10nl is pretty horrible, and i have seen people stack off in this spot with A,K, A,Q, even pocket pairs down to 8s and 7s. Lastly, the chances of coming up against AAs when you have kings is about 1 in 24 so when it does happen you just have to take it in stride and realise that's the nature of the game.
 
acky100

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wait a minute, you guys were serious about folding? sigh. Unless one of these little min raisers were 6/6 preflop then i could see some retard fish doing this type of shit with QJo so i couldnt fold lol.
 
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baudib1

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Please provide hand histories of NL10 FR players 6-betting less than all-in with hands other than AA.
 
Deco

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Urrgh any stats? I can't say I've ever folded KK for 100bbs before but this may call for it.

multiway even if we can throw QQ and AK into both ranges KK isn't a huge winner. If we give the min 6better a range of AA we're ****ed.


Hand 0: 31.867%65186820.00 { QQ+, AKs, AKo }
Hand 1: 36.266% 42348168.00 { KK }
Hand 2: 31.867% { QQ+, AKs, AKo }


Hand 0: 72.673% { AA }
Hand 1: 14.114% 1244268.00 { KK }
Hand 2: 13.213% { QQ+, AKs, AKo }
 
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