$10 NLHE Full Ring: He shoves river in pos easy fold??

- $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Holdem (8 players)
SB Hero: $10.09
BB: $5.98
UTG: $10
UTG+1: $10.97
MP: $15.16
MP+1: $10
CO: $11.28
BTN: $17.44 VPIP 17% PFR 13% AGG 2.9 steals 31% total says 43% button, Hands 709 folds 52% river

Pre-flop: ($0.15) Hero is SB and dealt
4 folds, CO raises to $0.28, BTN folds, Hero raises to $0.97, BB folds, CO calls $0.69

Flop: ($2.04) (2 players)
Hero bets $1.36, CO calls $1.36

Turn: ($4.76) (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks

River: ($4.76) (2 players)
Hero bets $2.38, CO raises to $8.95 (All-in), Hero so theres $16.09 in the pot now is it worth the call?? or we way behind?? :banghead:

Call.

I call. We need to be good like 26% (call ~$5.25 to win $20.25) of the time to be BE.

Check the hand history as well as board texture. He's really repping nothing and it looks like he caught the king, maybe a KQ kind of hand with one or two spades. Anyway, call.

Probably worth calling to see if he actually played a nutlike hand in this fashion.

River re-raises are almost always the nuts. Call and lose. You played the hand fine.

Fold to 3bet is kind of important here.

I fold with given info though. We don't need to be good too often, but a river raise after the cbet/check/bet line is rarely a bluff and rarely a lesser value bet.

If he had a draw, he'd have bet the turn. If he has Jx/QQ/TT, he never raises river. If he has a 7, he doesn't always ch back the turn, but the likelihood of him checking back the turn is still higher than him checking back a draw for ex. really we're hoping for Kxs to value shove really light or a random spazz shove from his marginal made hands, which imo doesn't happen nearly often enough to call.

I fold.

Does he show up with AA here ever? Interested to know what villain had because although I agree with Chuck I can't see a lot hands doing this that don't raise earlier.

Yeah I fold river as well

BlackRain79 said:

River re-raises are almost always the nuts. Call and lose. You played the hand fine.

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it's a river raise not re-raise

Chuck, I don't disagree that folding would be OK. I think we are beat here a lot but we don't have to be good very often. However, if you think he is going to bet the turn with a draw then he should be aggro enough to call this river raise.

Most villains at 10 NL, even wannabe TAGs, check back big draws on the turn to get a free card. Also, no one buys the bet/check/bet line, it just looks totally FOS.

Didn't realize how good the price is (still think it's close) but I disagree with your points baudib and still think it's probably a fold.

The level of aggression needed from villain to bet a draw after our very weak cbet/ch turn line is WAY lower than that needed to bluff shove the river giving us a great price on our money. People just don't bluff shove rivers often and this is just JJ/7x/AA a lot IME.

How often does a 17/13 call 3-bets with 7-x and AA/KK ?

So yea fold to 3-bet is pretty much essential here. More to the point how often does he check the turn with AA (prob never), and slow play 7x (rarely unless its 77) , so hands that slow play are 22/77/JJ/AKs/KQs. (KJ/KQ is prob unlikely to be there in a 3 bet pot either)

Gah fold.

tenbob said:

How often does a 17/13 call 3-bets with 7-x and AA/KK ?

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AA/KK are called a lot IP from TAGs in 10NL.

More to the point how often does he check the turn with AA (prob never), and slow play 7x (rarely unless its 77)

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agree with this. Thats what bugs me about the hand, a lot of stuff that beats us bets on the turn because of the flush draw - apart from JJ or 22 who's hoping the flush hits as he thinks you have the FD.

Reads here would really help.

The only thing it makes sense for him to have is KK/77 and maybe not even. He should raise a set on the flop always and he should 4-bet KK almost all the time in this spot. But give him that and KQss and it's a call! If he can have AK it's also a call. If he can ever spazz out on a stone-cold bluff it's obviously a fist-pump call.

Almost all hands that beat us should either 4-bet pre/raise the flop or bet the turn. so IDK, wtf.