$10 NLHE Full Ring: Hate this!

Vfranks

Vfranks

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$10 NL HE Full Ring: Hate this!

full tilt poker Game #13861182032: Table Guitar - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 17:59:15 ET - 2009/08/06
Seat 1: Command2Win ($4)
Seat 2: bigway75 ($9.90)
Seat 3: mistergrinch ($8.86)
Seat 4: NietHatenVriend ($6.45)
Seat 5: kirillk8 ($14.27)
Seat 6: foresight000 ($6)
Seat 7: Vernon T Franks ($4.85)
Seat 8: Timbasur ($6.80)
Seat 9: Edgarlucky ($2)
Timbasur posts the small blind of $0.05
Edgarlucky posts the big blind of $0.10
foresight000 posts $0.10
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Vernon T Franks [4s 4h]
bigway75 folds
mistergrinch folds
NietHatenVriend folds
kirillk8 raises to $0.80
foresight000 folds
Vernon T Franks has 15 seconds left to act
Vernon T Franks calls $0.80
Timbasur folds
Edgarlucky folds
*** FLOP *** [Tc Jc 5d]
kirillk8 bets $1.85
Vernon T Franks raises to $4.05, and is all in
kirillk8 calls $2.20
Vernon T Franks shows [4s 4h]
kirillk8 shows [7d 8d]
*** TURN *** [Tc Jc 5d] [Ac]
*** RIVER *** [Tc Jc 5d Ac] [9h]
Vernon T Franks shows a pair of Fours
kirillk8 shows a straight, Jack high
kirillk8 wins the pot ($9.29) with a straight, Jack high
Vernon T Franks adds $2
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $9.95 | Rake $0.66
Board: [Tc Jc 5d Ac 9h]
Seat 1: Command2Win is sitting out
Seat 2: bigway75 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: mistergrinch didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: NietHatenVriend didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: kirillk8 showed [7d 8d] and won ($9.29) with a straight, Jack high
Seat 6: foresight000 folded before the Flop
Seat 7: Vernon T Franks (button) showed [4s 4h] and lost with a pair of Fours
Seat 8: Timbasur (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 9: Edgarlucky (big blind) folded before the Flop



Tis guy just kept raising and reraising with crap draws, and winning some. Thought i would bust him thinking he had another crap draw that would miss hopefully and BLAM the nine on the river....I lost lol. Was I dumb for even playing this hand like this? I mean he could have had something, but i did not think he did...he left next hand
 
A

aceup21

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well

Well, there was a few ways to play it. But, with that flop and your hand, he bet half your stack. there was no way he was going to get away from it, especially on the flop. He would have probably called you down with any two cards on the flop. You should have threw in your cards on the flop. Anyways, Position is everything. with that hand if you were first to act on the flop you could have put in a feeler bet to see were you are in the hand or went all in to try and take it down right there. hopefully you will just learn from it and go to the next hand.

Anyway hope this helps
GL
 
slycbnew

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I don't think I like gambling w 44 in this spot. There are two draws out there (fd, straight draw) and 3 overcards - you're not a favorite here even against a purely random hand (45%).

If he is on one of the draws, or has top or second pair, I don't think he's folding to a shove (you're also short stacked, so it's easier for him to call your shove), so I don't think you have much if any fold equity here.
 
benevg

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okay, first off, try to convert your hands somewhere (look at other hands posted here to find some convertors if you do not know any). then, do not post results in a hand analysis thread, if you want meaningful answers... but i'll try anyway...

Was I dumb for even playing this hand like this?

so let me get this straight:
1. You play as a shortstack (judging by your rebuy)
2. You have more than doubled up since you sat down (depends on the above), and you have not left the table yet.
3. You call off 1/6 of your stack in a preflop raise with 44.
4. ...then shove practically without fold equity on one of the worst possible flops (3 overcards, flush and straight draw opportunities)

in summary... "dumb" is something i wouldn't really say to anyone, but i would say this was -EV...

(edit) Belgo above has said all i tried to say too, only in fewer words. :)
 
BelgoSuisse

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in summary... "dumb" is something i wouldn't really say to anyone, but i would say this was -EV...

but then -EV is really too kind. :D

Also, I doubt OP understands the term since he just joined, so let's translate:

EV = expected value
-EV = negative expected value
 
Monoxide

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hey you should convert your hands it's pretty cool yo
 
trewtrew

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fold preflop cos unless u hit a set there is virtually no flop u like so for 8BB its not worth it. On the flop after he bets he has so much money in the pot and including the fact that u noticed he was playing loose and risking his money on marginal hands then u could figure he probably wouldnt fold any pair which he is likely to have so moving in is stupid. Also, against crazy loose players like this there is no need to play loose back against them. Just wait for a bid hand like Aces or Kings and extract max value that way because playing for ur whole stack in marginal situations like this one only leaves u broke eventually...
 
RogueRivered

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What do you all think about an all-in reraise pre-flop with the fours?
 
Jurn8

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why would you 3bet jam 4's facing an open raise of 8x? surely thats like jumping off a bridge head first.

Also OP please buy in for 100BB thankyou.
 
RogueRivered

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The backstory. I'd think the table bullly wouldn't like a big confrontation. It might buy you some benefits in the future, too.
 
Jurn8

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so your saying stacking 44 in a 3bet is profitable?
 
RogueRivered

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no, he's just saying he's not very good at poker.

Hey, watch it. I was just asking what you thought about it. I guess not much.

OK, how do you respond to a table bully? I'm just trying to figure out how to shut down someone like the villain in the OP. Do you just wait for a great hand that may never come, do you leave, or do you take a calculated risk like this? Again, just wondering what you think -- not trying to generate any abuse.
 
BelgoSuisse

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OK, how do you respond to a table bully?

You don't want to make him stop. He's a gold mine. You just open up your calling and value raising ranges and you take all his money. But stacking 44 preflop is not the way to do that.
 
BelgoSuisse

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In other words, you adjust lightly.

Adjusting slightly is how you profit from the imbalances in the game of villains. Overadjusting is how you end up making villain's lagginess profitable for HIM. playing back with 44 is very obviously an overadjustment.
 
ItsMe

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That 8BB bet looks ridiculous. You should fold and wait for a sweeter spot. But, if you are losing your patience and cannot stand this guy then your other choice is re-raise all-in preflop and hope the blinds don't have hands. If he doesn't have a hand and if you've shown yourself to have TAG characteristics then he should fold unless he has a monster - but the 8BB bet doesn't look like aces or kings to me!?! I just think pushing preflop is so much better than seeing all the possible overcards to your fours peel off on the flop. Of course he might not have a brain and he might get lucky and/or the blinds may have hands - oh yeah, so it's still a fold.

I don't object to buying in for 50BBs if you are psychologically tough. You will get bullied but that's not a problem as you wil get paid handsomely when you hit a hand against the bullies and you should still be able to raise preflop and be respected. Just my thoughts but I practice what i preach.
 
Jurn8

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That 8BB bet looks ridiculous. You should fold and wait for a sweeter spot. But, if you are losing your patience and cannot stand this guy then your other choice is re-raise all-in preflop and hope the blinds don't have hands. If he doesn't have a hand and if you've shown yourself to have TAG characteristics then he should fold unless he has a monster - but the 8BB bet doesn't look like aces or kings to me!?! I just think pushing preflop is so much better than seeing all the possible overcards to your fours peel off on the flop. Of course he might not have a brain and he might get lucky and/or the blinds may have hands - oh yeah, so it's still a fold.

I don't object to buying in for 50BBs if you are psychologically tough. You will get bullied but that's not a problem as you wil get paid handsomely when you hit a hand against the bullies and you should still be able to raise preflop and be respected. Just my thoughts but I practice what i preach.

not as good as handsomely paid for 100BBs
 
RogueRivered

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You don't want to make him stop.

Good point.

In other words, you adjust lightly.

Adjusting slightly is how you profit from the imbalances in the game of villains. Overadjusting is how you end up making villain's lagginess profitable for HIM. playing back with 44 is very obviously an overadjustment.

So if he's raising 8BBs all the time, what sort of adjustment do you make that is slight? Are you looking to call or raise him? What kinds of cards are you looking for? What happens if you call and he c-bets and you miss the flop 67% of the time? I'm just wondering what you mean about adjusting slightly.

not as good as handsomely paid for 100BBs

If you don't feel comfortable playing 100BBs, don't let anyone tell you to, or at least don't listen to them. There is no inherent advantage to doing that. Good players love to play deepstacked against other deepstacked fish. If you're the fish, beware.

Possibly, each to his/her own style:D

Definitely. You have to feel comfortable with your own game. I think really good deepstackers would have a hard time proving that it is more profitable for the majority of players. It probably is for them.
 
Vfranks

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Full Tilt poker game #13905909070: Table Stars End - $0.02/$0.05 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:29:22 ET - 2009/08/08
Seat 1: Vernon T Franks ($4.18)
Seat 2: APOPHIS37000 ($6.49)
Seat 3: pachecodolores ($7.37)
Seat 4: vbardinelli ($5.65)
Seat 5: Miracle85 ($5)
Seat 6: Whoehaha ($5.08)
Seat 7: StopCallingMee ($5)
Seat 8: iLoveKriSS ($5)
Seat 9: jCasanova7 ($4.59)
StopCallingMee posts the small blind of $0.02
iLoveKriSS posts the big blind of $0.05
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Vernon T Franks [4h 4c]
jCasanova7 folds
Vernon T Franks raises to $0.10
APOPHIS37000 raises to $0.20
pachecodolores has 15 seconds left to act
pachecodolores folds
vbardinelli folds
Miracle85 folds
Whoehaha folds
StopCallingMee folds
StopCallingMee adds $0.02
iLoveKriSS folds
iLoveKriSS adds $0.05
Vernon T Franks calls $0.10
*** FLOP *** [6s 7h Qs]
Vernon T Franks checks
APOPHIS37000 bets $0.15
Vernon T Franks calls $0.15
*** TURN *** [6s 7h Qs] [7c]
Vernon T Franks checks
APOPHIS37000 bets $0.40
Vernon T Franks raises to $1.20
APOPHIS37000 calls $0.80
*** RIVER *** [6s 7h Qs 7c] [5h]
Vernon T Franks has 15 seconds left to act
Vernon T Franks checks
APOPHIS37000 bets $4.94, and is all in
Vernon T Franks calls $2.63, and is all in
Uncalled bet of $2.31 returned to APOPHIS37000
*** SHOW DOWN ***
APOPHIS37000 shows [Js Ks] a pair of Sevens
Vernon T Franks shows [4h 4c] two pair, Sevens and Fours
Vernon T Franks wins the pot ($7.87) with two pair, Sevens and Fours
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $8.43 | Rake $0.56
Board: [6s 7h Qs 7c 5h]
Seat 1: Vernon T Franks showed [4h 4c] and won ($7.87) with two pair, Sevens and Fours
Seat 2: APOPHIS37000 showed [Js Ks] and lost with a pair of Sevens
Seat 3: pachecodolores didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: vbardinelli didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: Miracle85 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: Whoehaha (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: StopCallingMee (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 8: iLoveKriSS (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 9: jCasanova7 didn't bet (folded)



Another table bully,i check raised him and he only called and just felt he didnt have but a flush draw and missed....i think...errr i know i just got lucky and prolly should have folded but oh well i won !!
 
slycbnew

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Just to be really really picky, 100BB is considered a medium stack, not a deep stack... but that doesn't have anything to do w Rogue's point.

Nice soul read on the second hand.

Please use a HH converter - not only are converted hands easier to read, it's not very nice to the players in the hand to be posted on a publicly searchable forum (especially if we end up criticizing their play). :D
 
RogueRivered

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Yeah, I keep forgetting to mention that, too. 100 is pretty medium, but people act like it's deep. If you really want to take advantage of the weak players, buy in enough to cover them all. If you're not one of the best players, or maybe just moved up in stakes and aren't comfortable yet, then a smaller stack is better, at least until you get accustomed to the new bet sizes.
 
Jurn8

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tbh If you arent comfortable playing with 100BBs then your either playing out of your BRM or playing with scared money. Move down and buy in for 100BBs

If I see a dude sitting with like 50-75BBs I just see them as a fish and tbh they often are, especially if I see one at a 50BB min table.
You dont have room to make plays with 50BBs and can find yourself committed with a marginal but w.e. buy in for 50BBs its cool.
 
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