$10 NLHE Full Ring: Flop top pair top kicker, facing a 4 bet

thebigdawg

thebigdawg

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I am on the cutoff with Ah Jh, its on me and there had been no limper's or raisers. I raise it $0.30, the button folds, sb calls, bb folds. Flop: Js 10c 7s. I bet $0.50, he raises to a $1.20, I re-raise $3.20, then he shoves. I didn't know what too do.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Stack sizes?

If you didn't know how to respond to a 4bet, why did you 3bet?

It's a very fundamental question. What were you hoping to accomplish when you 3bet?
 
thebigdawg

thebigdawg

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I had a full stack ($10) and he had around $9.

I just didn't think he would 4-bet on that flop, I figured he would have folded or called. Since I didn't make a big raise preflop I thought he might have KJ or QJ or a good draw like KQ's or AQ's but that 4-bet made me think he could be holding pocket 10's or 7's with the way he is betting.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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You made a mistake by not considering what you would do if he 4bet. And as Tommy Angelo says in Elements of Poker, you made the only mistake possible. You didn't think about the only situation that requires you to think!

If you 3bet and he folds, the hand is over and you don't have to think about the hand anymore. If you 3bet and he calls, the betting round is over and you don't have to think any more until you see another card and his action. So only if he 4bets do you have to decide what to do NOW. By not considering that outcome BEFORE YOU 3BET you put yourself in an awkward position without a plan for how to handle it.

He has a lot of hands in his range that beat you here (JT,89,77) and a lot of hands you're barely ahead of (A2-AJss, KQ, maybe some Kxss hands). Overall once he 4bets I'd say you have ~30% equity and you have to fold.

I like calling the flop donk bet here much more than raising it. If you had air (overs, gutters, underpairs) instead of TPTK, I'd like your 3bet a lot more (although a smaller 3bet size would be preferred) because your play is much clearer if you get 4bet or called.
 
jbbb

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I like calling the flop donk bet here much more than raising it. If you had air (overs, gutters, underpairs) instead of TPTK, I'd like your 3bet a lot more (although a smaller 3bet size would be preferred) because your play is much clearer if you get 4bet or called.

Villian checked he didn't donk. Would you advocate checking behind, c-betting and fold to raise, c-bet and be prepared to 3-bet a c/r or c-bet with another plan in mind?

Your answer was insightful though thankyou.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Villian checked he didn't donk. Would you advocate checking behind, c-betting and fold to raise, c-bet and be prepared to 3-bet a c/r or c-bet with another plan in mind?

Your answer was insightful though thankyou.

Yeah you're correct. Sorry, I misremembered the action.

I actually like cbetting but I think 3betting is really a bad idea unless we're willing to go all the way with our TPTK. Honestly without a read to let me know that stacking with TPTK against this player is the right thing to do, I like just folding to the flop ch/raise.
 
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thebigdawg

thebigdawg

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Thanks wvu.

Your right, I should have planned out what I was going to do if he 4bets me but I should have just called his raise to a $1.20 in the first place. I figured it was a bad play after it happened, this is just my first week of playing cash game. I end up calling his shove and he had AQ's, he hit the flush on me.
 
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peskey123

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Normally this play from villain on a wet board means he doesn't want to get drawn out of his hand (maybe two pair,set,straight). Problem is I can't see him doing this with KJ or worse. With no reads this would be an easy fold.
 
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