$10 NLHE Full Ring: Faced with a raise after flopping 2 pair

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 31/9/1

Bovada- $0.10 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP+1: 128 BB (VPIP: 45.45, PFR: 22.73, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, hands: 22)
MP+2: 87.5 BB (VPIP: 30.77, PFR: 23.08, 3Bet Preflop: 42.86, Hands: 13)
Hero (CO): 125.1 BB
BTN: 94.6 BB (VPIP: 14.29, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 14)
SB: 100.9 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)
BB: 122 BB (VPIP: 27.27, PFR: 13.64, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 22)
UTG: 96.3 BB (VPIP: 31.82, PFR: 9.09, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 22)
UTG+1: 69.5 BB (VPIP: 4.55, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 22)
MP: 122.5 BB (VPIP: 59.09, PFR: 9.09, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 22)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 7♣ 8♥

UTG calls 1 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 4 BB, fold, fold, BB calls 3 BB, UTG calls 3 BB

Flop: (12.5 BB, 3 players) 7♠ J♠ 8♣
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets 11.5 BB, fold, UTG raises to 47 BB....?

Not much to go on, but my guess is you ahead at this point. I would be putting my opponent on one of four hands here in which only one of them have you beat.

My guess in the most likely order is that your opponent will either have:
1 - A,J
2 - Suited spades
3 - 9, 10 ( The worst case )
4 - 10, J

With that being said, I would definitely go ahead and move all in for the scenario provided.

Did you find out what he had?

captainD said:

Not much to go on, but my guess is you ahead at this point. I would be putting my opponent on one of four hands here in which only one of them have you beat.

My guess in the most likely order is that your opponent will either have:
1 - A,J
2 - Suited spades
3 - 9, 10 ( The worst case )
4 - 10, J

With that being said, I would definitely go ahead and move all in for the scenario provided.

Did you find out what he had?

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I went all in and he had flopped the straight

ArcticBeef said:

I went all in and he had flopped the straight

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Yeah, unfortunately it's one of those miraculous set-ups. I don't think there's much else you can do in this spot. You made the right play. Shit happens, nothing else you could do in the given circumstances.

I would fold preflop unless he is a persisent limper ..At 10nl just stick to value hands no need to mess around with hands like this ....He could easily have an overpair here and be going for the old limp n raise from early position. You also cannot stand a raise from behind you. As soon as he calls preflop you are in bad shape nearly ALL of the time. As he's already looking fishy you are likely going to have to make a hand to win. You can't rely on bluffing these players off hands at these stakes.
As played I would call the flop raise and make sure the board doesn't pair on the turn and then commit. If the board pairs and he has an overpair you are toast. Bottom two pair is a very vulnerable hand. As it happens you ran into a straight that was just a small part of his range that you have to pay off. unlucky

Figaroo2 said:

I would fold preflop unless he is a persisent limper ..At 10nl just stick to value hands no need to mess around with hands like this ....He could easily have an overpair here and be going for the old limp n raise from early position. You also cannot stand a raise from behind you. As soon as he calls preflop you are in bad shape nearly ALL of the time. As he's already looking fishy you are likely going to have to make a hand to win. You can't rely on bluffing these players off hands at these stakes.
As played I would call the flop raise and make sure the board doesn't pair on the turn and then commit. If the board pairs and he has an overpair you are toast. Bottom two pair is a very vulnerable hand. As it happens you ran into a straight that was just a small part of his range that you have to pay off. unlucky

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Good analysis. Touche

Figaroo2 said:

I would fold preflop unless he is a persisent limper ..At 10nl just stick to value hands no need to mess around with hands like this ....He could easily have an overpair here and be going for the old limp n raise from early position. You also cannot stand a raise from behind you. As soon as he calls preflop you are in bad shape nearly ALL of the time. As he's already looking fishy you are likely going to have to make a hand to win. You can't rely on bluffing these players off hands at these stakes.
As played I would call the flop raise and make sure the board doesn't pair on the turn and then commit. If the board pairs and he has an overpair you are toast. Bottom two pair is a very vulnerable hand. As it happens you ran into a straight that was just a small part of his range that you have to pay off. unlucky

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Yeah this was an older hand from earlier in the month. I was raising pretty wide against most limpers because most of them usually fold to cbets quite often. I was going a little overboard with it for a while though. I have already tightened my range up quite a bit and it seems to be helping my bankroll out.

This is a pretty tough spot. Obviously 2 pair here is a strong hand, but with a coordinated flop like this your bottom 2 pair is VERY vulnerable. My decision in this spot would definitely take into account what I know or think about my opponent. If I did not have any kind of read on him, I think I may have to fold here. I know it would be tough but bottom 2 pair is really vulnerable here and you would have to commit about half your chips to call. Against a decent hand such as JT, J9, 2spades with a straight draw, you are barely over 50/50. If your opponent has a set here, (which is a real possibility given the limp/call preflop then check/raise flop) you are almost drawing dead. The less likely J7, J8, T9 also have you in bad shape. Since the raise is about half your chips you cannot call and then fold to a bad turn card. This is either fold or shove. Personally, I think I would have to fold here. There are just too many hands in his range that I do not want to go up against with a vulnerable 2 pair. In the heat of the moment it may be hard to lay down........I would like to think I could.
Good Luck at the Tables

I am taking a conservative line here and opting to fold this because of the size of the raise as villain is pretty much made his intentions clear of committing all his chips. I don't like that with this hand in this scenario.

And even though we have what might seem a pretty strong hand but there is a chance of a straight out there plus flush draws. On top of that what worries me the most is our hand in the first place. Our two pair is the worst possible out there. So i think it is best to fold this for all these reasons.:icon_geek

I agree with the fold pre comment. There are better hands to be trying to isolate with.

As played it's an unfortunate cooler when we flop 2 pair and the other guy has a straight.

It's not a cooler. Bottom two pair and top and bottom pair aren't much different from top pair on these kinds of boards facing that kind of aggression.

If the suits of the jack and the eight were switched, I could believe he has AJ of spades for TPTK + nut flush draw, in which case he is still the big favorite. The best case scenario is that he was slowplaying QQ/KK/AA which is so unlikely given the preflop action.

You have a 100 bb, and your hand isn't good enough to commit your whole stack on.

CactusCat said:

It's not a cooler. Bottom two pair and top and bottom pair aren't much different from top pair on these kinds of boards facing that kind of aggression.

If the suits of the jack and the eight were switched, I could believe he has AJ of spades for TPTK + nut flush draw, in which case he is still the big favorite. The best case scenario is that he was slowplaying QQ/KK/AA which is so unlikely given the preflop action.

You have a 100 bb, and your hand isn't good enough to commit your whole stack on.

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Oh yeah I just plugged it into Equilab. Yeah 51.36% favorite if villain had TPTK and Nut flush draw. So basically the original poster is flipping for 100 BBs if that was the scenario.

Honestly though this is why I say fold pre. You avoid dicey situations like this by not playing marginal hands that would be counterfeited by stronger hands. In this case running two pair into flopped straight.

Ah, didn't know bottom 2 was a slight favorite.

Since the jack is a spade, I think there's less likelihood of being up against a combo draw (like A8 of spades). J10 or K9 for a pair + gutshot I think would elect to flat your flop bet and perhaps consider calling down. Same for other hands like two overs + flush draw like KQs, or the gutshot flush draw Q10s. These are strong hands/draws, but usually players don't want to call off their stack on the flop with them. They'd rather try to hit and then choose a bet-sizing that gets them paid before bloating the pot. So you're more likely to be up against a hand that has you in terrible shape. Bottom two pair is at best a coin flip and I think folding is the proper play.

Fold pre. He probably had you beat pre flop. Lot of suited aces and pocket pairs in his utg limping range.

This is a HUGE reverse implied odd spot even if he did not flop the straight. He is loose judging from his VPIP, and the flop obviously hit the villain hard. A hand like As8s has you destroyed. Not to mention possible sets, he did limp UTG which often is a small/medium pocket pair. This could easily someone with a set, having you on a draw charging you for it. You beat a lot of hands here, but committing a whole stack on a hand as vulnerable as this is tough, deep in a cash game.

It's a tough laydown, most people would have a hard time getting away from this, but this would be the best decision.