$10 NLHE Full Ring: Correct Betting?

$10 NL HE Full Ring: Correct Betting?

Here I get sucked out on the river pretty much, but I am more posting this on help with betting. I wasnt sure how to bet this, I knew whatever he was drawing to/had was weaker thru the flop and turn so I just kept betting pot to make sure he would call. In situations like this, should I overbet a lot, risking the chance that they fold to a big bet? I hadn't been playing long with him, wasn;t sure how much he would be willing to call, but clearly a donk from previous hands. Thanks for any help =)

pokerstars Game #36798516936: Hold'em No Limit ($0.05/$0.10 USD) - 2009/12/16 22:00:02 ET
Table 'Coppelia II' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: medisonone ($10 in chips)
Seat 3: Yonasdd ($15.15 in chips)
Seat 5: Cardeira07 ($5 in chips)
Seat 7: laerick ($14.40 in chips)
Seat 8: HERO ($34.55 in chips)
Seat 9: VILLAIN ($10.75 in chips)
medisonone: posts small blind $0.05
Yonasdd: posts big blind $0.10
CASIR 00: sits out
Cardeira07: posts big blind $0.10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to amaZing1990 [8s 7s]
FlyinZimeena joins the table at seat #6
djdougy13 leaves the table
Cardeira07: checks
laerick: folds
HERO: calls $0.10
Fazz777: calls $0.10
medisonone: folds
Yonasdd: checks
*** FLOP *** [Qs 4s 3s]
Yonasdd: checks
Cardeira07: checks
HERO: bets $0.20
VILLAIN7: calls $0.20
Yonasdd: folds
Cardeira07: folds
*** TURN *** [Qs 4s 3s] <font color='black'>Q♣</font>
amaZing1990: bets $0.40
Fazz777: calls $0.40
*** RIVER *** [Qs 4s 3s Qc] [Tc]
Excalibur082 joins the table at seat #2
amaZing1990: bets $5
Fazz777: raises $5.05 to $10.05 and is all-in
amaZing1990: calls $5.05
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Fazz777: shows [Qd Th] (a full house, Queens full of Tens)
amaZing1990: shows [8s 7s] (a flush, Queen high)
Fazz777 collected $20.70 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $21.75 | Rake $1.05
Board [Qs 4s 3s Qc Tc]
Seat 1: medisonone (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: Yonasdd (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 5: Cardeira07 folded on the Flop
Seat 7: laerick folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: amaZing1990 showed [8s 7s] and lost with a flush, Queen high
Seat 9: Fazz777 (button) showed [Qd Th] and won ($20.70) with a full house, Queens full of Tens

lupefan said:

HERO: calls $0.10

Click to expand...

Stop that.

Open limping sucks.
Second convert your hands (search for one) posts like this make me angry.

Bet more on the flop, the pot is .45 right? but nearer to .30/.35.
Repeat on the turn bet more.
Why the hell did you overbet so much on the river (after betting small) when the board paired and you have a weak flush? Bet smaller but i'd still probably call the raise depending on the villain. Meh I dunno, a fold looks good, what does he do that with? What did you put him on?

I hope I didn't get confused in this hand with the bet sizes lol.

c9h13no3 said:

Stop that.

Click to expand...

Ditto.
Don't open limp. Raise your 78s or fold it. If your he first into the pot you should always be raising.

Reads

Sorry, will convert next time! I was hoping he caught top pair, and would lead after seeing weakness, the 10 on turn didnt really affect me, and when the board paired it didnt even occur to me he could have gotten FH.

lupefan said:

I was hoping he caught top pair, and would lead after seeing weakness, the 10 on turn didnt really affect me, and when the board paired it didnt even occur to me he could have gotten FH.

Click to expand...

I don't think you get it.

lupefan said:

Sorry, will convert next time! I was hoping he caught top pair, and would lead after seeing weakness, the 10 on turn didnt really affect me, and when the board paired it didnt even occur to me he could have gotten FH.

Click to expand...

Yeah, this is a pretty horrible way to think through the hand.

Start w preflop, we get 87s in CO, not a bad hand in position. What are we hoping for w this hand, which is an implied odds hand? We're hoping to flop strong draws or 2 pair type hands against an overpair. Assuming we've got position, we can bet w any draw behind a Villain who is out of position. That's why we want to raise preflop, we want the button (i.e, position). Unfortunately, we limp so now we're out of position when BTN calls, and BB checks, so we've got a 4way flop without position and a drawing hand. No idea what BTN is calling with, but nobody is likely to have a strong hand in a limped pot - but don't underrate the importance of position and the importance of initiative (you've also indicated your hand isn't strong by flatting preflop).

OK, so we see the flop, and we flop a non-nut flush - very cool, we probably have the best hand in a limped pot. Checked to us, we bet our flush. I prefer a larger bet on the flop, say 2/3 psb (pot is $0.45 on the flop, you didn't make a psb, confused by your opening post that you potted flop and turn?), we want to deny odds to higher flush draws and the pot is multiway. We want to play baby flushes pretty fast - we're going to have a problem if we get played back at. BTN calls followed by 2 folds.

Right now - what's BTN got? Don't think about specific hands, think about ranges of hands. We made a weak flop bet, less than half pot. Flush draws, overpairs, top pair, two pair and sets will call here, most players won't be keen on raising a monotone flop with these hands. Bigger flushes and the nut flush may or may not call here - this is Villain dependent, whether they'll play these hands slow or not.

So what turn cards do we not want to see? Any spade and any pair. What actions are we going to be worried about on the turn? If we bet and Villain calls.

This is definitely a hand you want to play fast initially, but you've got to slow down when you get called on the paired turn. I don't really hate the turn bet (except it's too small again), but when he calls you need to be thinking c/f on the river to an overbet, leading the river for a big amount is throwing money away - you're spewing implied odds w that amount - if I think Villain is capable of running a bluff, I might c/c a small-ish river bet.

What hands call the turn that we beat? Bare trips. What hands beat us? Bigger flushes and full houses. What hands overbet the river? Full houses, and the occasional bluff (betting trips here is a bluff - you don't see it much on a flush board at this limit - and the nut flush is going to be uncomfortable shoving on a paired board).

slycbnew said:

What hands call the turn that we beat? Bare trips. What hands beat us? Bigger flushes and full houses. What hands overbet the river? Full houses, and the occasional bluff (betting trips here is a bluff - you don't see it much on a flush board at this limit - and the nut flush is going to be uncomfortable shoving on a paired board).

Click to expand...

Personally I would shove that turn.

The guy who has just picked up trip Q's probably cant let go and the FD means things like As KS Qs will call because they have a 'big draw'

EDIT: this is assuming this is a calling station type opponent and not a nit who is very likely to be setmining as the Q now puts on a FH and we all know Zeebo's therom!!

Wow, thanks for all the responses, sorry I havent gotten back. Sly your analysis helped a lot, I definitely didn't come close to thinking with that much detail in the hand. I knew the hand was played bad as soon as it ended. Again, thanks a lot, ill be posting much more here, new years resolution

Bump up flop bet a little, and bump turn bet a lot. I don't know what the pot size was at the turn, but your bet should have definitely been more than .40 cents. I don't think I personally would have shoved the turn, obviously knowing his cards a shove seems like a good move - but I prefer to build up the pot. I don't know how big the turn was but I would have made it at least .80.