$10 NLHE Full Ring: AK off utg pls with raisers pre??

ALL IN CLUBS

ALL IN CLUBS

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- $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em (9 players)
SB: $10.73
BB: $3.50
UTG: $13.65
UTG+1 Hero: $13.94
MP: $14.24
MP+1: $4.09
MP+2: $8.21 VPIP 31% PFR 8% AGG 50% HANDS 88
CO: $8.75 VPIP 20% PFR 3% AGG 40% HANDS 30
BTN: $27.21 VPIP 43% PFR 41% AGG 53% 3BETS 26.9 HANDS 87
Pre-flop: ($0.15) Hero is UTG+1 and dealt :ac4: :kh4:
UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.40, 2 folds, MP+2 calls $0.40, CO calls $0.40, BTN raises to $2.15, 2 folds, Hero , So should we be just jamming here in this spot???
 
SYWTWAF

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With a 3-bet% of 27%, AK is well ahead of villain's range, so folding is not an option. Re-raising will just make you pot-committed, and you'll have to call if BTN jams anyway. Calling will force you to play AKo out of position. What will you do if you miss the flop (which will happen most of the time)? So, I'd jam here.
 
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sryImPro

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you shouldn't raise in middle position with those cards in first place...i would fold this reraise with no problem :)i m allways about thinking about opponents cards more than my own and you have 2 calls and one reraise,so at least one of tham could be in better position than you,so fold here:/
 
pokerman27

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you shouldn't raise in middle position with those cards in first place...i would fold this reraise with no problem :)i m allways about thinking about opponents cards more than my own and you have 2 calls and one reraise,so at least one of tham could be in better position than you,so fold here:/

Huh?

Were in early not middle position and what are you suggesting - we open fold AK? I hate to get AK all in pre-flop but against BTN I wouldn't be so worried. Your options are fold or shove. The two in-between you need to think about...are they folding to your shove?
 
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RamdeeBen

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Wow, this is so easy to shove on. Very easy, in my opinion. His stats are so high, that is insanely high for 6max, let alone 9max. You will be well ahead of his range here...I think I'd be happy shipping middle pair here too..
 
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sryImPro

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Huh?

Were in early not middle position and what are you suggesting - we open fold AK? I hate to get AK all in pre-flop but against BTN I wouldn't be so worried. Your options are fold or shove. The two in-between you need to think about...are they folding to your shove?
i m saying what would i do in that situation...a guy was looking for opinion and my decisions would be fold in this one ;)..My play is pretty tight in cash games...I'm wondering what would you do?..I'm here to learn too so i'm curious...
 
takethepain

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folding AK here IMO is leaking money. Shoving is good here you are way ahead of his range.
 
bgomez89

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you shouldn't raise in middle position with those cards in first place...i would fold this reraise with no problem :)i m allways about thinking about opponents cards more than my own and you have 2 calls and one reraise,so at least one of tham could be in better position than you,so fold here:/

[x] nittier than FX
 
pokerman27

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i m saying what would i do in that situation...a guy was looking for opinion and my decisions would be fold in this one ;)..My play is pretty tight in cash games...I'm wondering what would you do?..I'm here to learn too so i'm curious...

I wasn't needling you just surprised. Forgetting the action after us for a second, we're opening the betting...to open fold AK is massive leak in your game if that's what you're doing. You should always be looking to raise and build a pot - you have a very strong hand here and you want to build a pot and seize the initiative.
 
WVHillbilly

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you shouldn't raise in middle position with those cards in first place...i would fold this reraise with no problem :)i m allways about thinking about opponents cards more than my own and you have 2 calls and one reraise,so at least one of tham could be in better position than you,so fold here:/
Open folding AKo from any position is not so good.

As to the hand,
ALLLLLLL-INNNNN
 
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sryImPro

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i hear you guys loud and clear :)...i wouldn't probably post on this tread that i didn't lose 2 days ago with AK,i was actually kicked out from the tournament and i finished 14th(guy took from me 80 K chips with AA ofc)..and i'm pretty mad at AK starting hand right now :)
 
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ComplexPlaya

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i m saying what would i do in that situation...a guy was looking for opinion and my decisions would be fold in this one ;)..My play is pretty tight in cash games...I'm wondering what would you do?..I'm here to learn too so i'm curious...

What's your winrate with AK?
 
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baudib1

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I think we can profitably jam our entire UTG+1 range against this guy.
 
Traggy

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Man tuff spot,

Stats... I feel like this is one of those situations that HUD's make you lose money. How many times has he three bet? I see the 25%, but what was the total times.. If it is like 4/16 or 5/20, Jam, but 2/8 this might influence me differently to fold.

You cant call here either, which I am sure you are aware of because atleast one of the two callers will come along if you call. Then the pot is way the hell out of whack.

Also, with him three betting so much what was his fold to 4bet? I know you probably do not have that on your display, but it is worth checking on in your database.
 
mrmonkey

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Man tuff spot,

Stats... I feel like this is one of those situations that HUD's make you lose money. How many times has he three bet? I see the 25%, but what was the total times.. If it is like 4/16 or 5/20, Jam, but 2/8 this might influence me differently to fold.

You cant call here either, which I am sure you are aware of because atleast one of the two callers will come along if you call. Then the pot is way the hell out of whack.

Also, with him three betting so much what was his fold to 4bet? I know you probably do not have that on your display, but it is worth checking on in your database.

Great reply Traggy, I love your posts.

I was going to just echo JAM IT, but what you say about the actual number of 3bets out of 3bet opportunities makes a lot of sense.
 
SYWTWAF

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Man tuff spot,

Stats... I feel like this is one of those situations that HUD's make you lose money. How many times has he three bet? I see the 25%, but what was the total times.. If it is like 4/16 or 5/20, Jam, but 2/8 this might influence me differently to fold.

You cant call here either, which I am sure you are aware of because atleast one of the two callers will come along if you call. Then the pot is way the hell out of whack.

Also, with him three betting so much what was his fold to 4bet? I know you probably do not have that on your display, but it is worth checking on in your database.
It's true that our sample size of villain's hands isn't large enough as to draw anything truly conclusive, and we may want to take villain's 4bet fold stat into account alongside all the other information we have on him.

But it seems to me that what data we do have available to us indicates that villain likes to play a lot of pots, and that when he has chosen to enter a pot, he'll almost always raise (whether it be open-raise or re-raise), and rarely limp. He looks like a late-position squeezer to me. Unless he's been on a supremely good run these last 87 hands, AK seems ahead of his range.
 
No Brainer

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Man tuff spot,

Stats... I feel like this is one of those situations that HUD's make you lose money. How many times has he three bet? I see the 25%, but what was the total times.. If it is like 4/16 or 5/20, Jam, but 2/8 this might influence me differently to fold.

You cant call here either, which I am sure you are aware of because atleast one of the two callers will come along if you call. Then the pot is way the hell out of whack.

Also, with him three betting so much what was his fold to 4bet? I know you probably do not have that on your display, but it is worth checking on in your database.


We have ~90 hands on villain. Just looking at a table in my replayer, a couple of players with ~100 hands have 35-40 3 bet samples and a couple with ~200 hand samples have 60-80 3 bet samples. i think we can safely assume that his 3 bet % is quite reliable although we may expect it to come down a little more.

I think we could jam this over someone with 10%+ 3 bet so I think this is a pretty good spot for a shove.

As far as the two in the middle, the are both passive fish, love to call pre flop raises and see flops and after both cold calling the initial raise I think we can be pretty sure they will get out of the way pretty quick...
 
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ComplexPlaya

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what the hell
Even if BTN 3-bets only 3% it's still a shove.
 
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