$10 NLHE Full Ring: AA on JT7 in 3bet pot facing check raise

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mottotom27

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Stacks:
UTG - UTG ($8.45)
UTG+1 - Hero ($10.15)
MP - MP ($10.05)
CO - CO ($11.05)
BTN - BTN ($23.99)
SB - SB ($6.26)
BB - BB ($10.55)

Preflop: ($0.15, 7 players) Hero is UTG+1 with Ac As
UTG raises to $0.30, Hero raises to $1.05, 5 folds, UTG calls $0.75

Flop: Js 7d Td ($2.25, 2 players - Hero: $9.10, UTG: $7.40)
UTG checks, Hero bets $1.43, UTG raises to $3.90

Only 13 hands on villain. Board is very wet. Should i go with AA here in this 3bet pot or fold?
 
PCK

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i dont fold here,can have here something like QQ,KK maybe AJ,i dont like only call preflop..
 
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erlanditas

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Go all in here. his reraise looks like with straight or flush draw
 
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hffjd2000

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Shove likewise.

He would shove next street if you just call here.
 
Landopope

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I agree with everyone else that this is a shove. Chances are he is playing a draw or KK/QQ/AJ. Did you have any stats on the villain? There is likely no way he is raising UTG with 2 of those flop cards.
 
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mottotom27

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I agree with everyone else that this is a shove. Chances are he is playing a draw or KK/QQ/AJ. Did you have any stats on the villain? There is likely no way he is raising UTG with 2 of those flop cards.

only 13 hands so no stats yet. i did shove for the same reasons you said, but then when he showed 89 of diamonds for the super nuts i began to doubt myself and perhaps his range is weighted towards sets, two pair and straights...maybe i'm just being results orientated though, but getting it in with less than 4% equity is never nice :p
 
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greedisgood

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only 13 hands so no stats yet. i did shove for the same reasons you said, but then when he showed 89 of diamonds for the super nuts i began to doubt myself and perhaps his range is weighted towards sets, two pair and straights...maybe i'm just being results orientated though, but getting it in with less than 4% equity is never nice :p


I play 6 max tables at this stake and people tend to c/r a lot with their big hands problem is JT, QQ, KK would play likewise. But as your not deep he made a terrible mistake to raise and call a 3bet with 89s VS only 1 opponent. Just 3bet him wide and keep the agression as I think villain will play a lot of suited random cards to Chase flush draws ANC straight draws. Just isolate and make your money back:)
 
Landopope

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only 13 hands so no stats yet. i did shove for the same reasons you said, but then when he showed 89 of diamonds for the super nuts i began to doubt myself and perhaps his range is weighted towards sets, two pair and straights...maybe i'm just being results orientated though, but getting it in with less than 4% equity is never nice :p
It is hard to forget about certain plays but in the long term you will make your money back against the villain. Calling a 3bet of $1 with 89 is a huge spew to me. Unless someone can argue otherwise I still believe you played fine.
 
atlantafalcons0

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It is hard to forget about certain plays but in the long term you will make your money back against the villain. Calling a 3bet of $1 with 89 is a huge spew to me. Unless someone can argue otherwise I still believe you played fine.

Basically no reads, I don't get why you would shove after a 3bet on a board like this! My first instinct would be that this guy hit a set of tens or jacks as those hands are certainly part of his range and I can't think of many hands that would 3 bet bluff on this board except maybe AKs?

Edit: Of course it's a spew play to call the preflop 3bet of $1 with 89s but of course we have no reads at all. He's not 3betting unless the nuts he flop like this so I don't think it's a good practice to shove over 3bets vs any opponent on a board like this.
 
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mottotom27

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Basically no reads, I don't get why you would shove after a 3bet on a board like this! My first instinct would be that this guy hit a set of tens or jacks as those hands are certainly part of his range and I can't think of many hands that would 3 bet bluff on this board except maybe AKs?

Edit: Of course it's a spew play to call the preflop 3bet of $1 with 89s but of course we have no reads at all. He's not 3betting unless the nuts he flop like this so I don't think it's a good practice to shove over 3bets vs any opponent on a board like this.

Obviously sets/straights etc. are in his range, but as others have suggested, QQ/KK/AJ/draws could also be in there and to fold to those hands would be losing so much value. I think it's close but probably a jam.
 
atlantafalcons0

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Obviously sets/straights etc. are in his range, but as others have suggested, QQ/KK/AJ/draws could also be in there and to fold to those hands would be losing so much value. I think it's close but probably a jam.

sets/straights?

So if you're conceding that 89 is in his "range" then his range is uncapped right?
 
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Well i didn't put this in his range at the time, but eliminating that gives even more reason to call. Since then we only lose to 77/TT/JJ but beat QQ/AJ/KK/flush draws so i think there are more combos we beat than are beaten by. I'm no expert but that would be my assumption, correct me if i'm wrong.
 
Figaroo2

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Could you elaborate?
He rarely does...
But I think he is right.
This is only 10nl..very few players are capable of bluffing here other than a semi bluff with a monster draw.
You 3bet an unknown UTG opener which is itself practically screams aces or kings
You then lead out showing you aren't scared by the board and he still check raises knowing you likely have an overpair to the board with an amount that is begging for a call.
My first thought before seeing the result was a set of jacks or tens. calling flop reraises at this level with 1pair isn't going to win much.
If I had any inkling he was loose I might continue and even here id probably call to see what he does on the turn but im never shoving here personally
 
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mottotom27

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He rarely does...
But I think he is right.
This is only 10nl..very few players are capable of bluffing here other than a semi bluff with a monster draw.
You 3bet an unknown UTG opener which is itself practically screams aces or kings
You then lead out showing you aren't scared by the board and he still check raises knowing you likely have an overpair to the board with an amount that is begging for a call.
My first thought before seeing the result was a set of jacks or tens. calling flop reraises at this level with 1pair isn't going to win much.
If I had any inkling he was loose I might continue and even here id probably call to see what he does on the turn but im never shoving here personally

my worry wasn't whether or not he was bluffing, it was whether or not he would shove with worse "value" hands like QQ or AJ given he's a fish. some players will only check raise with nutted hands but i've seen others who will play QQ the same way. since i don't have any specific reads it's hard to know what play is correct here. i think "fold when in doubt" should be used as a default here though since it reduces variance and often saves money in these spots.
 
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mottotom27

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I actually keep contradicting myself here. Before i was agreeing with the people saying shove to get value from QQ/KK/AJ but now i'm almost going the other way. if we go on a purely combinations approach then far more combos of QQ/KK/AJ than TT/JJ, but then you can assume he would be much more likely to play TT/JJ this way than the other combos. i'm still unclear as to what the right play was here.
 
Figaroo2

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I recently did a review using leakbuster of hands where i had continued after being checkraised on the flop and it wasn't pretty. At 10nl there aren't many players who are capable of the move without being very strong. you called the guy a fish but as i read it we didn't know that until we saw his hole cards.
if we knew he had a normal utg 3 bet calling range of say TT + then in my view we lose to TT JJ beat QQKK AKs so its pretty much even. I shouldnt worry to much about having got it in here. Once you have stats its a much easier decision. If they are passive players check raising then I look to fold. if they are aggressive I look to call .
 
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