$10 NLHE Full Ring: AA in pos reraised o flp >???

ALL IN CLUBS

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- $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em (9 players)

SB: $12.88
BB: $10 vpip 11% pfr 8% agg#3.3 hands 117 flpcbets 100%
BB fold to steal 0% fold vs flp bet 50% fold to turn bet 50%
UTG: $9.87
MP: $10
MP+1: $10
MP+2: $10.08
LP: $10.18
CO: $1.27
BTN Hero: $10.30
Pre-flop: ($0.15) Hero is BTN and dealt :ah4: :ad4:
6 folds, Hero raises $0.30, SB folds, BB calls $0.20
Flop: ($0.65) :2h4: :7d4: :8d4: (2 players)
BB checks,Hero bets $0.50, BB raises $1.50, Hero, why is he reraising oop ?? do we just call ,jam ,or ??????
 
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mikejm

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he prob has on overpair i would jam and im guessing your gonna get a call from kings or queens.
 
PattyR

PattyR

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it he had kings or queens doesn villain 3 bet preflop?
 
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mikejm

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im not really sure if he would three bet. if villain thinks we are just trying to steal he might flat pre flop and see if we can catch up a bit. i really don't see being behind after the flop though.
 
Stu_Ungar

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min raise him back.

If he has a set he shoves... you fold.

If he has a FD he likely calls as the raise size is small.

If he has a small overpair like TT/JJ he will call.

The problem with calling is the pot is starting to get big.. if he has a pair like TT/JJ he will likely bet out on the turn and you wont know where you are.

By raising here you give yourself an oppotunity to fold to a shove but also get value when he calls.
 
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Thanks Stu very good advice :)
min raise him back.

If he has a set he shoves... you fold.

If he has a FD he likely calls as the raise size is small.

If he has a small overpair like TT/JJ he will call.

The problem with calling is the pot is starting to get big.. if he has a pair like TT/JJ he will likely bet out on the turn and you wont know where you are.

By raising here you give yourself an oppotunity to fold to a shove but also get value when he calls.
 
Stu_Ungar

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Thanks Stu very good advice :)

No probs.

Its basically exploiting the fact these guys (10NL in general) dont tend to play their FDs all that aggressively. A CR is about as aggressive as a FD gets at 10NL.

Most players with these stats play their sets extremely aggro on these boards so you are manipulating his range with a small reraise.
 
WVHillbilly

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Meh he has a set here about 90% of the time. He's super tight and called from the blinds. You have the Ad so he has like no FDs. I think if I'm playing well I just fold to the flop raise.
 
Stu_Ungar

Stu_Ungar

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Meh he has a set here about 90% of the time. He's super tight and called from the blinds. You have the Ad so he has like no FDs. I think if I'm playing well I just fold to the flop raise.

If I had to put him on a hand.. it would be a set.. they love to setmine!
 
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- $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em (9 players)

SB: $7.89
BB: $6.14 VPIP 38% PFR9% AGG#2.3 HANDS 99
UTG: $19
MP: $12.70
MP+1: $13.41
MP+2 Hero: $15.33
LP: $10 VPIP 11% PFR 6% AGG#9.3 HANDS 329 3BET#5.3
BETS FLOP 90%
CO: $10
BTN: $10
Pre-flop: ($0.15) Hero is MP+2 and dealt :kc4: :kd4:
3 folds, Hero raises $0.30, LP raises $1.05, 3 folds, BB calls $0.95, Hero Stu?? Would i do the same here. 4bet the nit and if he jams fold pre???
 
Stu_Ungar

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- $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em (9 players)

SB: $7.89
BB: $6.14 VPIP 38% PFR9% AGG#2.3 HANDS 99
UTG: $19
MP: $12.70
MP+1: $13.41
MP+2 Hero: $15.33
LP: $10 VPIP 11% PFR 6% AGG#9.3 HANDS 329 3BET#5.3
BETS FLOP 90%
CO: $10
BTN: $10
Pre-flop: ($0.15) Hero is MP+2 and dealt :kc4: :kd4:
3 folds, Hero raises $0.30, LP raises $1.05, 3 folds, BB calls $0.95, Hero Stu?? Would i do the same here. 4bet the nit and if he jams fold pre???

Get it in with KK preflop.

There is almost no player type that is tight enough that getting it in with KK is wrong.

They would have to have a 3 bet or 4bet stat of 0.8

You will get calls from AK and QQ
 
Stu_Ungar

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Actually I lie.. there is one guy who is my arch nemesis in this respect.

He has a high 3bet stat.

Every-time I have AK, KK, QQ or JJ and I open, get a caller and he 3bets from BTN or Blinds (basically a great squeeze spot .. which is something people with high 3 bet stats do) .. every-time without fail he has AA.

The only saving grace is he rarely buys in for more than 50Bbb
 
rileyl

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You having the Ad really limits the amount of flush draws villain can have....Meh I probably call in game, and see what he does turn, but this probably is a fold
 
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papatango123

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fold most of the time its a set. plus avoids tilt losing a big pot with aces
 
pokerman27

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min raise him back.

If he has a set he shoves... you fold.

If he has a FD he likely calls as the raise size is small.

If he has a small overpair like TT/JJ he will call.

The problem with calling is the pot is starting to get big.. if he has a pair like TT/JJ he will likely bet out on the turn and you wont know where you are.

By raising here you give yourself an oppotunity to fold to a shove but also get value when he calls.

I did just this yesterday in almost idential circumstances - I min-raised back he shoves...but like an idiot I called despite my instincts that he had a set (which he did). I think I learnt a valuable lesson though and reading the above confirms that what I was thinking was right but lacked my own discipline to then fold my aces.
 
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Yea, in think Stu's min bet raise is a great way to see if they have the set cuz most the time they insta shove back..
 
WVHillbilly

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Honestly I don't think you need the min raise in in the case of the hand in the OP. This guy has your AA beat so often that just folding is the best play.
 
WVHillbilly

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Yes. An 11/8 who calls OOP who can't have the NFD because you have the Ad is never (almost never) raising that flop with anything he flatted preflop other than sets. He doesn't flat TT/JJ preflop to raise them on a "safe" flop. He has no FDs. So that leaves sets. So when his entire range beats you there is no reason to min raise and waste your money. Just fold.
 
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ComplexPlaya

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Yes. An 11/8 who calls OOP who can't have the NFD because you have the Ad is never (almost never) raising that flop with anything he flatted preflop other than sets. He doesn't flat TT/JJ preflop to raise them on a "safe" flop. He has no FDs. So that leaves sets. So when his entire range beats you there is no reason to min raise and waste your money. Just fold.

Hmm I don't know about this, I have seen a lot of of weird calls from ppl with low vpips at 10nl. hands you wouldn't put in his range. Maybe he 3-bets a lot but likes to call SC's and the like
 
Stu_Ungar

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Hmm I don't know about this, I have seen a lot of of weird calls from ppl with low vpips at 10nl. Hands you wouldn't put in his range. Maybe he 3-bets a lot but likes to call SC's and the like

It is true, people do show up with some weird stuff that you wouldn't think was in their range, yet the vast majority of the time they will show up with exactly what is in their perceived range.

I would suggest that a handful of weird holdings have skewed your perception of their ranges (because these weird holding stick in your mind more than the the expected holdings)
 
ben_rhyno

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I would definitely not be done with the hand just because he raised our flop bet. He could easily have flatted 99-JJ here, aswell as KQ/KJ/JQdd and maybe even 9-10dd. I agree with min re-raising him and if he ships it we can fold, if he flats we can reevaluate on the turn. There are definitely more hands he can reraise this flop with than just a set.
 
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ComplexPlaya

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It is true, people do show up with some weird stuff that you wouldn't think was in their range, yet the vast majority of the time they will show up with exactly what is in their perceived range.

I would suggest that a handful of weird holdings have skewed your perception of their ranges (because these weird holding stick in your mind more than the the expected holdings)

Confirmation bias...could be! Like all the riggies that for conclusions from their bad beat stories and all that

Interesting strat with the min-3bet hope I remember it @ the tables
 
WVHillbilly

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I would definitely not be done with the hand just because he raised our flop bet. He could easily have flatted 99-JJ here, aswell as KQ/KJ/JQdd and maybe even 9-10dd. I agree with min re-raising him and if he ships it we can fold, if he flats we can reevaluate on the turn. There are definitely more hands he can reraise this flop with than just a set.

What makes you guys think the info you get after min raising him will be so much better than the info you already have? I mean if he has ANY FDs in his range (I maintain he doesn't) what makes you think he doesn't shove over the min raise with them? I don't play 11/8 but I know I would. As for 99-JJ why would a nit go crazy with them here and raise? Nits don't do that. Nits make the nuts, then raise.
 
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