$10 NLHE Full Ring: A8s in position w/strong draw

DetroitJimmy

DetroitJimmy

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Edit: I posted wrong title on this hand. Should be "A8s in position with strong draw" or something like that.

Ok I know I'm gonna here it about playing rush poker because of lack of reads blah blah blah. The thing is I have been playing with a HUD lately and taking good notes I just did not have any on villian.

1.Preflop: Loose call? Not too worried about this. Really need feedback on post flop play because this is where I need to improve more than anywhere.

2.The flop: Should I flat here? I think with my number of outs maybe I should try to get it all in on the flop. That and if I call and the other spade comes I really can't expect to earn any more bets, right? Should I maybe re-raise more?

3.The flop part 2: Now I got what I think I wanted so I have to call, right?




Stacks:

* CO with $4.05
* BTN with $6.84
* SB with $14.23
* BB with $12.42
* UTG with $17.47
* UTG+1 with $13.93
* MP1 with $10.43
* MP2 with $15.58
* MP3 with $10.85


hand.pl

Blinds: $0.05/$0.10
Site: full tilt poker
* * Dealt to MP3:A♠ 8♠

Preflop:
* * UTG raises to $0.35
* * 3 players fold.
Hero calls [$0.35]
* * 4 players folded.
* * Total folds this street: 7
* * Potsize: $0.85
Flop: 3♠ 8♥ Q♠
* * UTG bets [$0.85]
* * 4 players fold.
Hero raises to $2
* * UTG raises to $17.12, and is all in Hero ?

I kinda suck postflop, but trying to work on it so don't be afraid to be critical:).

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KINGSIN

KINGSIN

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1. not to attack u here, but loose call is an understatement. I assume you know this as you try to dismiss this "not too worried about this" If i made that call, i probably wouldn't sleep for a week. But lets say you found yourself in this situation, by accident. Maybe hit the call instead of fold button.

2. what to do? put our opp on hand first, being under gun and having no other information, Id only put him on top hands AA KK QQ AKs AKo.
What does a pot size bet on the flop mean? He still likes his hand.
What are my pot odds? 2 to 1
How many outs do I have? 9(flush) for sure, 2(8s) more if our opp didnt just hit top set, 3(As) more if opp didnt have pocket rockets. And none needed if he strait continuation bet with AKs/o. All in all id put it at 11 outs, discounting 1 out on the 8s and 2 on the As.
So with 11 outs, to call would be a wrong as you need 3.2 to 1, especially if you believe another spade will kill the action and your opp will fold to any bet.
The other option to raise, with the nut flush draw, trip draw, and two pair draw.
First what will my opp do if i reraise?
if he has AA KK QQ = I expect him to shove.
if he has AKs/o= I expect him to fold.
So reraising is out of the question, based on the hand range i believe him to be on. Now the reason why? My opp has told me twice he likes his hand. The reraise all in would give me exacly what i need to call for two cards to come with 11 outs 1.4 to 1, so an even money proposition, so to fold woldnt be wrong either. (pot 12.20/8.50what you have left=1.4)Another reason, i dont like calling as even money, as much as i like pushing even money, as i have fold equity on my side. Also if he has AK your a huge favorite, as you only have to dodge a K thats not a spade, and runner runner strait with out a spade-so your only forcing a fold to a hand youll beat by the river anyways.
What about a push? 10.50 to win 1.70, seems kind of steep, and 41% of time your called youll end up winning, so 41% time youll win 11.00, 59% of time youll loose 10.50, and if your opp folds youll win 1.70-which id say would happen about 10% of the time.
All in all id call hope for an 8 and pray he didnt boat, or if spade came hope my opp would loose his head with an overpair.
3. to call the shove NO as discussed earlier, even money with my opp doing the asking, I mean hes now told you three times he has you beat, hes not bluffing, and if he is, this is just one bluff youre not catching
 
TheUndesirable

TheUndesirable

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I'm not folding here as were have 15 outs twice against one pair hands (excluding AA) and could even have the best hand if he has JT spades or some other straight draw/flush draw combo.
 
J

JMcCabe

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1) Yes, but you're getting to see a flop headsup in position, so it's fine imo.

2) This is basically the best flop you could hope for with your hand, other than flopping trip 8s (or quad 8s I guess). You want to get it all in on the flop to maximize your equity when the money goes in. Preferably, you want to be the aggressor when the money goes in.

3) As played, you have to call here. If you run into a set, you've still got enough equity to warrant a call. Against an UTG raising hand range that 3bet shoves this flop (QQ+, xsxs, a few bluffs) you've got more than enough equity to profitably call.
 
rssurfer54

rssurfer54

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1. not to attack u here, but loose call is an understatement. I assume you know this as you try to dismiss this "not too worried about this" If i made that call, i probably wouldn't sleep for a week. But lets say you found yourself in this situation, by accident. Maybe hit the call instead of fold button.

2. what to do? put our opp on hand first, being under gun and having no other information, Id only put him on top hands AA KK QQ AKs AKo.
What does a pot size bet on the flop mean? He still likes his hand.
What are my pot odds? 2 to 1
How many outs do I have? 9(flush) for sure, 2(8s) more if our opp didnt just hit top set, 3(As) more if opp didnt have pocket rockets. And none needed if he strait continuation bet with AKs/o. All in all id put it at 11 outs, discounting 1 out on the 8s and 2 on the As.
So with 11 outs, to call would be a wrong as you need 3.2 to 1, especially if you believe another spade will kill the action and your opp will fold to any bet.
The other option to raise, with the nut flush draw, trip draw, and two pair draw.
First what will my opp do if i reraise?
if he has AA KK QQ = I expect him to shove.
if he has AKs/o= I expect him to fold.
So reraising is out of the question, based on the hand range i believe him to be on. Now the reason why? My opp has told me twice he likes his hand. The reraise all in would give me exacly what i need to call for two cards to come with 11 outs 1.4 to 1, so an even money proposition, so to fold woldnt be wrong either. (pot 12.20/8.50what you have left=1.4)Another reason, i dont like calling as even money, as much as i like pushing even money, as i have fold equity on my side. Also if he has AK your a huge favorite, as you only have to dodge a K thats not a spade, and runner runner strait with out a spade-so your only forcing a fold to a hand youll beat by the river anyways.
What about a push? 10.50 to win 1.70, seems kind of steep, and 41% of time your called youll end up winning, so 41% time youll win 11.00, 59% of time youll loose 10.50, and if your opp folds youll win 1.70-which id say would happen about 10% of the time.
All in all id call hope for an 8 and pray he didnt boat, or if spade came hope my opp would loose his head with an overpair.
3. to call the shove NO as discussed earlier, even money with my opp doing the asking, I mean hes now told you three times he has you beat, hes not bluffing, and if he is, this is just one bluff youre not catching

I wanted to respond, but this is just too right.
 
rssurfer54

rssurfer54

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1) Yes, but you're getting to see a flop headsup in position, so it's fine imo.

How do you know its going to hu? There are other players to act behind, who could 3bet or also call and have position on you. the call pf is really really bad.
 
cjatud2012

cjatud2012

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The call pre-flop is not really bad. You have an implied odds hand with decent position, and you might even get a multi-way pot.

How is that really bad?
 
rssurfer54

rssurfer54

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The call pre-flop is not really bad. You have an implied odds hand with decent position, and you might even get a multi-way pot.

How is that really bad?

so its just a little bad? haha
 
cjatud2012

cjatud2012

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Lol probably :D

I mean, I probably wouldn't make the call, especially considering the raise came from UTG who probably has mostly strong aces in his range. But you call for the implied odds of getting paid off when you flop huge, which is totally fine. Note that flopping huge is not hitting the ace in this case, you'd need probably at least top two to feel comfortable proceeding with the hand, or a hand like this one, where our equity is really good and we might have some fold equity.
 
DetroitJimmy

DetroitJimmy

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I did call because I figured to be behind a set and if so I still had many outs.

As for the preflop call it is a little looser than usual but I felt frisky:rolleyes:.
I will make that call all day with one more limper and on button, CO, CO+1.
If that is too loose maybe I should switch to 6max.
 
WVHillbilly

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Against his likely range to do this (QQ+, 88, AQ imo) you have about 42% equity. You need about 40% equity to make this a call, so it's close but it's a call.

I don't like your call preflop. You're basically only playing to flop a flush/FD because your Ace is rarely good if any real money goes in post on an Ace high flop. I might call ON THE BUTTON if the someone else calls before it gets to me but if it's just an UTG raise I fold A8s even on the button.
 
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