$10 NLHE 6-max: Zoom Cutoff vs. BB River fold or call?

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scarsam

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PokerStars - $0.10 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 134.3 BB (VPIP: 22.34, PFR: 16.60, 3Bet Preflop: 9.83, hands: 490)
SB: 133.9 BB (VPIP: 12.50, PFR: 4.17, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 24)
Hero (BB): 215.4 BB
UTG: 161.3 BB (VPIP: 34.29, PFR: 34.29, 3Bet Preflop: 16.67, Hands: 37)
MP: 106.5 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
CO: 164.2 BB (VPIP: 66.67, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 9:diamond: K:diamond:

fold, fold, CO raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 2 BB

Flop: (6.5 BB, 2 players) 8:diamond: K:spade: 5:heart:
Hero checks, CO bets 4.1 BB, Hero calls 4.1 BB

Turn: (14.7 BB, 2 players) 2:heart:
Hero checks, CO bets 9.3 BB, Hero calls 9.3 BB

River: (33.3 BB, 2 players) A:spade:
Hero checks, CO bets 21.2 BB, fold

CO wins 31.8 BB

I only have 3 hands of data on this villain, so i didn't include his stats in my decision. Putting in his range in Equilab for 3 streets of betting from the villain resulted in only about 20% equity so i think my fold is right. I'm not sure my analysis is 100% correct so i would like to hear other opinions.
 
nucl

nucl

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Imo it's too obvious that you have a K there because all the straight draws will fold turn except some straight draws with hearts in your range.But the 3barrel from villain is a little scary and the 65% pot bets seems to me like value bets.So you might be behind all the way from villain range.On the river villain will almost always check back 99/QQ and some Kx.
So he is repping 55,88,KK(unlikely),AK,A8h and AA.Give him credit and fold the hand.
 
thylmanoid

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K9s is not a standard call pre-flop, it's a good way to lose even more money. This isn't a deep stacked tournament it's a cash game and K9s should not be calling here in my opinion.
 
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scarsam

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Given the actions before me, an open from the CO, in 6 max cash games it definitely is. Unless of course most of the pros are wrong, this is not something I came up with myself.
 
thylmanoid

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Against CO range you have less than 20% equity most of the time. I might 3Bet bluff, but I wont call unless I know something about the CO
 
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scarsam

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Put in a normal CO opening range vs. K9s in Equilab and you will find out that this is not true. Preflop you have at least 40 percent.
 
nucl

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I don't know why you guys are arguing but K9s at 6-max cash game and 160bb effected stack is definitely belongs to bb calling range.K9s is to strong to fold with the only action is a opening from CO.
 
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scarsam

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I don't know why you guys are arguing but K9s at 6-max cash game and 160bb effected stack is definitely belongs to bb calling range.K9s is to strong to fold with the only action is a opening from CO.
Exactly
 
c9h13no3

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If K9s is a standard call, I've got some beachfront property in Montana you'd be interested in.
 
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MrSamsa

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PokerStars - $0.10 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 134.3 BB (VPIP: 22.34, PFR: 16.60, 3Bet Preflop: 9.83, Hands: 490)
SB: 133.9 BB (VPIP: 12.50, PFR: 4.17, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 24)
Hero (BB): 215.4 BB
UTG: 161.3 BB (VPIP: 34.29, PFR: 34.29, 3Bet Preflop: 16.67, Hands: 37)
MP: 106.5 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
CO: 164.2 BB (VPIP: 66.67, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 9<font color='red'>♦</font> K<font color='red'>♦</font>

fold, fold, CO raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 2 BB

Flop: (6.5 BB, 2 players) 8<font color='red'>♦</font> K<font color='black'>♠</font> 5<font color='red'>♥</font>
Hero checks, CO bets 4.1 BB, Hero calls 4.1 BB

Turn: (14.7 BB, 2 players) 2<font color='red'>♥</font>
Hero checks, CO bets 9.3 BB, Hero calls 9.3 BB

River: (33.3 BB, 2 players) A<font color='black'>♠</font>
Hero checks, CO bets 21.2 BB, fold

CO wins 31.8 BB

I only have 3 hands of data on this villain, so i didn't include his stats in my decision. Putting in his range in Equilab for 3 streets of betting from the villain resulted in only about 20% equity so i think my fold is right. I'm not sure my analysis is 100% correct so i would like to hear other opinions.

Yeah don't listen to that other guy saying that K9s isn't a call in the bb. It most certainly is.

As far as the hand goes i think you're locked into the line you took- it's a call twice and hope he gives up on the river situation when you flop TPMK, and when the A falls i think it's almost certainly a fold as the CO range has so many marginal Axoff hands as well as weaker suited ones.

You will however have to mix in some raises on the flop to putt 99-QQ in tough spots. in the future as well as, in certain scenarios at your discretion, call down even when that A comes on the river because if you just simply fold whenever an ace comes you're going to be exploited quickly. I'm not sure which Kings you should mix in the calling with but i would guess ... the strong Kings like K10-KQ? because you block hands in his range he's trying to represent?????? Little beyond my level but yeah hope its something to think about at least
 
c9h13no3

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Preflop you have at least 40 percent.
So we're behind...

We don't have a good hand (we've got worse preflop equity), we don't have good position... why are we calling?

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation
2,821,876,992 trials (Exhaustive)
K9s 44.46% (1,196,616,825 wins, 115,996,350 ties)
35% 55.54% (1,509,263,817 wins, 115,996,350 ties)
 
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scarsam

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In any other position I would fold or 3bet this hand. But since we are in the big blind we have to call this hand, since we get the right odds. We have to call 2 bb in a 4,5 bb pot.
 
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scarsam

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Yeah don't listen to that other guy saying that K9s isn't a call in the bb. It most certainly is.

As far as the hand goes i think you're locked into the line you took- it's a call twice and hope he gives up on the river situation when you flop TPMK, and when the A falls i think it's almost certainly a fold as the CO range has so many marginal Axoff hands as well as weaker suited ones.

You will however have to mix in some raises on the flop to putt 99-QQ in tough spots. in the future as well as, in certain scenarios at your discretion, call down even when that A comes on the river because if you just simply fold whenever an ace comes you're going to be exploited quickly. I'm not sure which Kings you should mix in the calling with but i would guess ... the strong Kings like K10-KQ? because you block hands in his range he's trying to represent?????? Little beyond my level but yeah hope its something to think about at least
Thanks for your feedback! In zoom I think I should be less worried about balancing my range, so I believe I should never call the river here unless I'm playing in 50NL Zoom against the same regs all day, do you agree?
 
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braveslice

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I wouldn't say definitely K9s is in calling range, even deep, A2s would be much easier (nutted), or 86s and similar for added nut str value. But I can see it happen if we read we have skill edge over CO.
 
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