$10 NLHE 6-max: Turned OESFD, all-in call decision

LuckyChippy

LuckyChippy

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$10 NL HE 6-max: Turned OESFD, all-in call decision

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 34/15/1.8

UTG is 17/12/2 with 0% 3-bet over 43 hands. BB is a bit of a station, 34/15/1.8 over 75 hands.

Pre-flop and flop is fairly standard, turn is the decision. I re-raise to juice the pot hoping for a call really but do I have to call the shove? Play it any different? Questions only really because we're very deep and unsure about this spot, 100BB deep it's standard to call I think. It's a deep table but I doubled up from 100BB and I'm comfortable against these opponents with 200BB. They play bad.

full tilt poker $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 859126
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

Hero (BTN): $20.87
SB: $11.14
BB: $29.38
UTG: $9.15
CO: $31.18

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BTN with 8 7
UTG raises to $0.40, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.40, 1 fold, BB calls $0.30

Flop: ($1.25) 6 7 Q (3 players)
BB bets $0.60, UTG folds, Hero calls $0.60

Turn: ($2.45) 9 (2 players)
BB bets $1.60, Hero raises to $4.50, BB raises to $28.10, Hero ?
 
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TorreyB

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Here's the thought process I have as of right now:

1) Villian's preflop raise is typical on full tilt of players that have a premium hand or a monster pocket pair. (or sometimes donks do this almost every hand)
2) The 0.60 bet on the flop was a little odd considering he led preflop, and most cbets are higher. Was he pretending to flop nothing to get more chips?
---It's possible to also 3-bet here, which usually results in a call and then a villian should check on the turn giving you an option to either fire again or take a free river card.
3) The first turn bet was more than half. Was the previous flop bet a probe to see if you had a queen or set to raise his low bet?

My guess would be the that table started to fill with a flush draws and a straight draw and the villian put his stack all in to stop you from going any further and protect his big pocket pair.
 
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LuckyChippy

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I think you played the hand fine, and I personally would have folded after that all in on the turn. Here's the thought process I have as of right now:

1) Villian's preflop raise is typical on full tilt of players that have a premium hand or a monster pocket pair. (or sometimes donks do this almost every hand)
2) The 0.60 bet on the flop was a little odd considering he led preflop, and most cbets are higher. Was he pretending to flop nothing to get more chips?
---It's possible to also 3-bet here, which usually results in a call and then a villian should check on the turn giving you an option to either fire again or take a free river card.
3) The first turn bet was more than half. Was the previous flop bet a probe to see if you had a queen or set to raise his low bet?

My guess would be the that table started to fill with a flush draws and a straight draw and the villian put his stack all in to stop you from going any further and protect his big pocket pair.

UTG folds to BB's donk bet :) 2 villains but only one that matters really.
 
WVHillbilly

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His bet's way too big for you to profitably call imo. You probably have about 35% equity. That said I do like the turn raise, but you have to fold to the shove this deep.
 
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onemorechance

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His bet's way too big for you to profitably call imo. You probably have about 35% equity. That said I do like the turn raise, but you have to fold to the shove this deep.

What do you do on the turn if we're 100bb deep wv?
 
madtom1337

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Damn, his shove sucks. If you just call his turn bet, that will make the pot $5.65 on the river... He'll probably bet like at least $3 making the pot at least $8... I quite like a call on the turn because our hand is quite well concealed... I don't mind your raise though, it's nice to build the pot up a little more for the river when you hit... I don't think either option is considerably more +EV...

When he shoves... Well, if you has AA/KK here, you have up to 20 outs (two-pair/trips)... If he has a set of queens here you have 15 outs... Because some of his combos include hearts here, I think the best estimation of our average number of outs here is like 16.5... Nearly 36% equity... We don't have enough equity to make the call here... We're getting like 1.5-1 I think... However, if we raise to like $8 here (5x his bet) or $9.60 or just round it up to $10 for convenience, lol, then we get a better price to make the call if he shoves... I'm not sure how I feel about manipulating our bet sizing just so that we get the right price though, it's not actually going to help us win the hand... So I think I like a call line here when he bets the turn... That seems easy to say when we can see how big he re-raises us, but I think the fact that if we hit on the river our hand will be well concealed helps with the call argument... It's not like a diamond river is going to be that scary for him... 4 to a straight might be... But most of your outs are flush cards anywho... And if you hit like a two-pair or trip 7s here, you can call for showdown value in case he has a set of queens, which I think he does fairly often here...
 
WVHillbilly

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What do you do on the turn if we're 100bb deep wv?

Probably flat unless I know something more about him than we do here (namely that he'll donk twice and fold). If we do raise the turn 100bb deep we have to call it off.
 
madtom1337

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Woah woah woah... I just re-read this hand and realised we're against the BB here... Let me re-evalute what I just said... Just posting this quickly so people don't have to correct me, lol...
 
madtom1337

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Ok I've changed what I think now... Since it's the BB who only flatted pre-flop, I think we can say sets are a likely part of his range here, and I think he can also have AKhh, 89hh, 56hh, and possibly a few other heart combos if he wants to be a spaz. Against this range, I like a call on the turn, because he's going to be shoving a LOT when we raise. Against the UTG it'd be a different story and a raise would be more appropriate. This kind of explains more why he makes this shove.
 
WVHillbilly

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Damn, his shove sucks. If you just call his turn bet, that will make the pot $5.65 on the river... He'll probably bet like at least $3 making the pot at least $8... I quite like a call on the turn because our hand is quite well concealed... I don't mind your raise though, it's nice to build the pot up a little more for the river when you hit... I don't think either option is considerably more +EV...

When he shoves... Well, if you has AA/KK here, you have up to 20 outs (two-pair/trips)... If he has a set of queens here you have 15 outs... Because some of his combos include hearts here, I think the best estimation of our average number of outs here is like 16.5... Nearly 36% equity... We don't have enough equity to make the call here... We're getting like 1.5-1 I think... However, if we raise to like $8 here (5x his bet) or $9.60 or just round it up to $10 for convenience, lol, then we get a better price to make the call if he shoves... I'm not sure how I feel about manipulating our bet sizing just so that we get the right price though, it's not actually going to help us win the hand... So I think I like a call line here when he bets the turn... That seems easy to say when we can see how big he re-raises us, but I think the fact that if we hit on the river our hand will be well concealed helps with the call argument... It's not like a diamond river is going to be that scary for him... 4 to a straight might be... But most of your outs are flush cards anywho... And if you hit like a two-pair or trip 7s here, you can call for showdown value in case he has a set of queens, which I think he does fairly often here...

You have to discount a set of Queens because he flats 2 players OOP imo. I think his widest range is something like 66/77/88/99/67/some A6/7/8/9 hh or dd hands. Maybe Q9 and Qxdd hands. Even that wide we only have 38% equity.

I don't like calling when we're deep because I want to build the pot so I can get his entire stack when I hit and at least think about stealing the pot on the river if he calls turn/checks river.
 
LuckyChippy

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Yeah I'm always raising cause of stack sizes.
 
LuckyChippy

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Good discussion and it's results time as we've pretty much decided I should have folded. Overall I had around 35% equity but managed to get it in against the bottom of his range for a near flip.

Turn: ($2.45) 9 (2 players)
BB bets $1.60, Hero raises to $4.50, BB raises to $28.10, Hero calls $15.37 all in

River: ($42.19) 6 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $42.19
Hero shows 8 7
BB shows 6 7
BB wins $40.19
(Rake: $2.00)
 
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