$10 NLHE 6-max: TT UTG vs BB squeez.

forsakenone

forsakenone

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So I open TT utg, fish calls behind, and BB 3bets me. I have reasons to believe that he might be trying to isolate the fish behind me, stats on BB are over 94 hands, plays 21/14/1.6 AF and a 3bet of 9% but the sample is not that great.

Fish behind me aka CO plays 65/35/1 AF on 23 hands.

Do you just give this up preflop? do you 4bet it or do you call to see a flop given that we have position and we are pretty sure the fish will call behind?


b]888 Poker - $0.10 NL - Holdem - 5 players[/b]
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

CO: $21.19
BTN: $10.00
SB: $13.27
BB: $10.00
Hero (UTG): $10.00

SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero has T:club: T:heart:

Hero raises to $0.35, CO calls $0.35, fold, SB calls $0.30, BB raises to $1.43, Hero ??
 
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baudib1

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I'd probably 4-bet, get it in and not be really happy about it. Alternatively you could just fold.
 
jbbb

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If you have your stats it'd be helpful to see it from BB's point of view. If you look semi reg i'd be squeezing a pretty wide merged range here for value vs. the fish expecting you to fold.

The worrying thing is villains stats don't look like a reg, 21/14 is not indicative of a player who knows how or when to squeeze so I probably fold, take a note and observe his play in the future. 4betting here with no history or reads is too thin IMO.
 
c9h13no3

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I 4-bet shove, but I never fold so... ya.

Just too much money in there to go foldin' good hands.
 
Last edited:
forsakenone

forsakenone

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888 Poker - $0.10 NL - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

CO: $21.19
BTN: $10.00
SB: $13.27
BB: $10.00
Hero (UTG): $10.00

SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero has T:club: T:heart:

Hero raises to $0.35, CO calls $0.35, fold, SB calls $0.30, BB raises to $1.43, Hero calls $1.08, fold, SB calls $1.08

Flop: ($4.64, 3 players) 2:diamond: T:diamond: 9:heart:
SB checks, BB bets $2.42, Hero calls $2.42, fold

Turn: ($9.48, 2 players) J:heart:
BB bets $3.07, Hero raises to $6.15, BB calls $3.08

River: ($21.78, 2 players) Q:club:

BB shows K:spade: K:heart: (Straight, King High) (Pre 81%, Flop 10%, Turn 14%)
Hero shows T:club: T:heart: (Three of a Kind, Tens) (Pre 19%, Flop 90%, Turn 86%)
BB wins $20.70
 
forsakenone

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I guess fold pre is best, shove is second best and calling is the worst even tho this time around I did flop a set I don't flop it enough to make it profitable.
 
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BlueNowhere

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I'd have 4-bet tbh but I agree with calling is worst.
 
Deco

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Fold Not close at all.

21/14s aren't likely candidates to squeeze/3bet bluff often and if they were they're sure as hell not going to do it with a 65vpip drooler in the pot. This 3bet will be pure and utter value.
 
c9h13no3

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[4/10/2012 10:35:52 PM] Brandon Gomez: there's no way he calls with worse
[4/10/2012 10:35:56 PM] Brandon Gomez: save for AK
[4/10/2012 10:36:01 PM] C9H13NO3: who cares, there's too much dead money to fold
[4/10/2012 10:36:18 PM] C9H13NO3: its $10 NL and there's likes $2.50 in the pot already
[4/10/2012 10:36:35 PM] Brandon Gomez: but its TT
[4/10/2012 10:36:39 PM] C9H13NO3: I have high hopes for this thread: www.cardschat.com/forum/community-hangout-4/well-im-quitting-online-poker-now-209125/
[4/10/2012 10:37:07 PM] C9H13NO3: * KK+: Good against any range
* QQ: vs 3% or higher
* JJ: vs 6.5% or higher
* TT: vs 8.5% or higher
* 99: vs 10.5% or higher
* 88: vs 12.5% or higher
* 77: vs 14% or higher
* AKs: vs 3% or higher
* AQs: vs 8% or higher
* AJs: vs 13% or higher
* AKo: vs 5% or higher
* AQo: vs 9% or higher
[4/10/2012 10:37:08 PM] Brandon Gomez: LOL
[4/10/2012 10:37:30 PM] C9H13NO3: that's for 1 on 1, assuming no dead money
[4/10/2012 10:37:48 PM] C9H13NO3: we've got two callers of dead money, in an obvious squeeze situation
[4/10/2012 10:37:51 PM] Brandon Gomez: meh maybe youre right
[4/10/2012 10:37:58 PM] C9H13NO3: I'm not saying I am
[4/10/2012 10:38:05 PM] Brandon Gomez: yeah he'd definitely be 3betting wider
[4/10/2012 10:38:05 PM] C9H13NO3: I just don't think shoving's that bad
[4/10/2012 10:38:07 PM] C9H13NO3: deffo the more fun way to play it
[4/10/2012 10:38:23 PM] C9H13NO3: might even be the most profitable way
[4/10/2012 10:38:33 PM] C9H13NO3: if he 3-bets 9% there, we have a huge fist-pump jam
[4/10/2012 10:40:40 PM] Brandon Gomez: true
[4/10/2012 10:41:09 PM] Brandon Gomez: 3bet stats dont really converge that fast though so do you just make it up
[4/10/2012 10:42:01 PM] C9H13NO3: 21/14 ugh
[4/10/2012 10:42:06 PM] Brandon Gomez: seems bad
[4/10/2012 10:42:14 PM] C9H13NO3: bleh I'd prefer he be more towards 25/19 or something
[4/10/2012 10:42:32 PM] C9H13NO3: I wonder what that sample of 3-bets is
[4/10/2012 10:42:47 PM] Brandon Gomez: oh did he actually give a 3bet%?
[4/10/2012 10:42:48 PM] C9H13NO3: like anything under 100 hands, I prefer to have like (3/22) instead of the percentage
[4/10/2012 10:42:50 PM] C9H13NO3: yeah
[4/10/2012 10:42:53 PM] C9H13NO3: he said it was 9%
[4/10/2012 10:42:57 PM] Brandon Gomez: oh yeah 9%
[4/10/2012 10:42:57 PM] Brandon Gomez: hmm
[4/10/2012 10:43:00 PM] C9H13NO3: but that could be one out of 11 or something
[4/10/2012 10:43:32 PM] C9H13NO3: but idk, if he's 3-betting 3/33 hands, he's probably 3-betting at least AK
[4/10/2012 10:43:38 PM] C9H13NO3: so it can't be that bad
 
Deco

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[4/10/2012 10:35:52 PM]
[4/10/2012 10:37:07 PM] C9H13NO3: * KK+: Good against any range
* QQ: vs 3% or higher
* JJ: vs 6.5% or higher
* TT: vs 8.5% or higher
* 99: vs 10.5% or higher
* 88: vs 12.5% or higher
* 77: vs 14% or higher
* AKs: vs 3% or higher
* AQs: vs 8% or higher
* AJs: vs 13% or higher
* AKo: vs 5% or higher
* AQo: vs 9% or higher

Where you find/How did you calculate those figures?
 
bgomez89

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It's a chart from Holdem manager
 
Deco

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Nice, I knew the TT one (well I thought it was 10%) but never seen the others.
Anyone know of the original link, there will no doubt be conditions such as 100bbs and certain raise sizes.

People should take these with a hint of salt though. Going of the TT rule I recall they are the 3bet% villains need to profitably shove over a 3bet? There is usually more profitably lines that can be took. With most villains and their stingy 5bet ranges flatting 3bets with the likes of AQ/TT is more profitable and throwing in some 4bet bluffs to combat the high 3bet% is best until villain begins to 5bet light.

In my experience most villains will have a 5bet range of {AK,QQ+} without history. Although some of the really high 3betters I'll go and assume they 5bet light from the word go.

/thread highjack
 
c9h13no3

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Nice, I knew the TT one (well I thought it was 10%) but never seen the others.
Anyone know of the original link, there will no doubt be conditions such as 100bbs and certain raise sizes.
Its given pot size raises between two opponents for 100bb's.

Yeah, all that chart says is that for a given 3-bet frequency, you can 4-bet and call a shove with those hands and ALWAYS profit. Either because your opponent folds too many hands, or you'll have an equity edge when you call. Sure if our opponent 3-bets 10% of hands, and only ships KK+, then we should 4-bet/fold. But usually we don't know that information. So I just take the unexploitable line.

There is no original link. Its from an article included with HEM, and the author wanted to include it with the trial of HEM to promote the software. The article is "Facing a preflop 3-bet".
 
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