$10 NLHE 6-max: trouble with AK..

I keep finding myself in these stupid spots where I lost my stack with AK
can you please tell me if you would have played it differently and how?
should I always fold to a 3 bet on the flop with AK? (considering I flopped TP)
I should remind you that this is 10nl and a lot of fish. meaning sometimes when villians 3 bet me on the flop they had a big draw or just lower kicker.

hand 1:


PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 40 BB (VPIP: 18.70, PFR: 15.45, 3Bet Preflop: 9.80, hands: 126)
SB: 100 BB (VPIP: 21.40, PFR: 18.08, 3Bet Preflop: 3.70, Hands: 281)
Hero (BB): 100 BB
UTG: 107.8 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 13.85, 3Bet Preflop: 3.33, Hands: 66)
CO: 136.4 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 19.64, 3Bet Preflop: 3.85, Hands: 58)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K:club: A:heart:

fold, CO raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 9.5 BB, CO calls 6.5 BB

Flop: (19.5 BB, 2 players) 4:spade: Q:diamond: A:diamond:
Hero bets 19 BB, CO raises to 44 BB, Hero raises to 90.5 BB and is all-in, CO calls 46.5 BB

Turn: (200.5 BB, 2 players) 8:spade:

River: (200.5 BB, 2 players) 7:spade:
Players agreed to run it twice.

Turn #2: (200.5 BB, 2 players) 5:club:

River #2: (200.5 BB, 2 players) 6:heart:

Hero shows K:club: A:heart: (One Pair, Aces)Board #1 (Pre 70%, Flop 13%, Turn 5%)Board #2 (Pre 70%, Flop 13%, Turn 7%)
CO shows Q:spade: A:spade: (Flush, Ace High)Board #1 (Pre 30%, Flop 87%, Turn 95%)Board #2 (Pre 30%, Flop 87%, Turn 93%)
CO wins 95.8 BB
CO wins 95.7 BB


hand 2 :


PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: 195.4 BB (VPIP: 34.33, PFR: 20.90, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 68)
CO: 106.6 BB (VPIP: 26.53, PFR: 21.43, 3Bet Preflop: 10.26, Hands: 100)
BTN: 129.2 BB (VPIP: 41.77, PFR: 36.71, 3Bet Preflop: 13.64, Hands: 86)
SB: 107.9 BB (VPIP: 30.86, PFR: 24.69, 3Bet Preflop: 6.90, Hands: 82)
Hero (BB): 172.3 BB
UTG: 40 BB (VPIP: 23.92, PFR: 21.61, 3Bet Preflop: 13.42, Hands: 2,465)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A:club: K:heart:

fold, fold, CO raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 10 BB, CO calls 7 BB

Flop: (20.5 BB, 2 players) 7:diamond: 9:spade: K:club:
Hero bets 15 BB, CO raises to 96.6 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 81.6 BB

Turn: (213.7 BB, 2 players) K:diamond:

River: (213.7 BB, 2 players) 2:spade:

Hero shows A:club: K:heart: (Three of a Kind, Kings) (Pre 45%, Flop 2%, Turn 16%)
CO shows 7:spade: 7:heart: (Full House, Sevens full of Kings) (Pre 55%, Flop 98%, Turn 84%)
CO wins 204.1 BB

reads?

baudib1 said:

reads?

Click to expand...

what do you mean?

First hand, why are you betting so much on the flop? I think you can still get away from your hand, but with that sizing, it's much closer. Any ways, fold hand 1.

Hand 2 is also a fold unless your opponent is a total nutball. There's really no draws, he likely does not have AK, and he's not doing this with a worse K. So he did you a favor by playing it so bad really. He gave you a chance to get away from your hand w/o investing anymore.

John A said:

First hand, why are you betting so much on the flop? I think you can still get away from your hand, but with that sizing, it's much closer. Any ways, fold hand 1.

Hand 2 is also a fold unless your opponent is a total nutball. There's really no draws, he likely does not have AK, and he's not doing this with a worse K. So he did you a favor by playing it so bad really. He gave you a chance to get away from your hand w/o investing anymore.

Click to expand...

I agree 100% this explanation, it is hard to fold your AK with that flop but, money saved are money earned, you did very agresive play on hands that are worse against good number of hands, and that re raise stuff shows big strenght in your opponent hands!

Don't go bust with one pair in a cash game is one of the best bits of advice I ever read.

thats the thing though , I've come to learn that usually a shove like in hand 2 means nada . just some random fish wants to get a double up with KQ or KJ hoping I just missed . I swear it happens a lot in 10nl
then again maybe I just think that it happens more often then not and thats why Im a loser LOL

yanivshe said:

thats the thing though , I've come to learn that usually a shove like in hand 2 means nada . just some random fish wants to get a double up with KQ or KJ hoping I just missed . I swear it happens a lot in 10nl
then again maybe I just think that it happens more often then not and thats why Im a loser LOL

Click to expand...

This is why you need to provide reads on villain. This could be a snap fold vs. some or a snap call vs. others.

In a vacuum I'm inclined to fold hand 1 and call hand 2.

John A said:

First hand, why are you betting so much on the flop? I think you can still get away from your hand, but with that sizing, it's much closer. Any ways, fold hand 1.

Hand 2 is also a fold unless your opponent is a total nutball. There's really no draws, he likely does not have AK, and he's not doing this with a worse K. So he did you a favor by playing it so bad really. He gave you a chance to get away from your hand w/o investing anymore.

Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, why in every other HA you tell people to bet way more on the flop but here with tons of draws he should bet less? Fwiw, hand 1 I'm perfectly fine with. Hand 2 on the other hand is a fold. Its closer with the fact that its a 3b pot but best we can hope for is a chop and that's pretty optimistic. Ppl arent really ever doing this with KQ etc here.

baudib1 said:

This is why you need to provide reads on villain. This could be a snap fold vs. some or a snap call vs. others.

In a vacuum I'm inclined to fold hand 1 and call hand 2.

Click to expand...

That's interesting because I'm more inclined to call hand 1, and hand 2 is a pretty easy fold. What hand range do you think someone is shoving here at these stakes? KQ? T8?

Blobweird123 said:

Out of curiosity, why in every other HA you tell people to bet way more on the flop but here with tons of draws he should bet less? Fwiw, hand 1 I'm perfectly fine with. Hand 2 on the other hand is a fold. Its closer with the fact that its a 3b pot but best we can hope for is a chop and that's pretty optimistic. Ppl arent really ever doing this with KQ etc here.

Click to expand...

You're talking about hand 1 right? What are the tons of draws? It's a relatively dry board, and it's a 3-bet pot so there's really no need to bet very much. Bet sizing has everything to do with pre-flop action, your opponents likely second best calling range, flop texture, and your opponent.

John A said:

You're talking about hand 1 right? What are the tons of draws? It's a relatively dry board, and it's a 3-bet pot so there's really no need to bet very much. Bet sizing has everything to do with pre-flop action, your opponents likely second best calling range, flop texture, and your opponent.

Click to expand...

Any dd hands. KJ/TJ plus combos that do well against us. And yes I generally I do size smaller in 3b pots. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with potting it here. on this board anything calling 60% is more than likely calling a psb.

John A said:

That's interesting because I'm more inclined to call hand 1, and hand 2 is a pretty easy fold. What hand range do you think someone is shoving here at these stakes? KQ? T8?

Click to expand...

you may be right, super drawy texture in Hand 1 may give him a few combos of draws, but I feel like people mess around less pushing semibluffs on A-high boards in 3-bet pots, may be wrong.

Hand 2 could be a fold just based on such a bad price.

Blobweird123 said:

Any dd hands. KJ/TJ plus combos that do well against us. And yes I generally I do size smaller in 3b pots. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with potting it here. on this board anything calling 60% is more than likely calling a psb.

Click to expand...

It's just a 2 flush board in a 3-bet pot. A lot of likely combos of hands that would push are gone since one of the flush cards is an A. I don't think many people at these stakes are going to raise a flush w/ no overs in a 3-bet pot, but maybe I'm completely wrong.

And KJ/TJ is a little optimistic imho. In a 3-bet pot you're going to want to maximize value on multiple streets against worse AJ/AT. If you pot, then bet large again on the turn you're committing your opponent. Maybe at 10nl they stack off with those hands. But imho that's not the highest EV line. You want to get most of their stack without over committing yourself as well, and keep weaker hands in.

thank you all for your inputs

Some valuable advice above from those who know...
Harrington's books advise that most bets mean what they appear to mean...few players bluff all the time and you should soon pick up reads on ones that do.
In hand one he just calls your 3bet rather than 4 bets, I usually consider this to mean a decent but non premium hand, AQ AJs 9s 10s JJs is the usual range (full ring) probably lighter in 6max.
On the flop Hero bets 19 BB, CO raises to 44 BB.
As is mentioned above you have tptk and want to keep in weaker holdings like AJ and draws in the hand, charging enough to make calling with a draw a mistake so 1/2 to 3/4 pot is enough.
Once he re-raises here you have to consider what his bet means and if most bets mean what they say they do you have to consider that tptk is beat.
Rather than just auto stack off at this point, stop and think about his stats and what he has done previously. I mentioned in another post recently poker is not just about the cards its a game of people and what they do. Most people are habitual, they do what works for them. This is where your decision should become player dependent and proceed accordingly. In the absence of reads I'm probably folding at this point.
You can apply the same logic to hand 2 and with such a dry board and with 2 pair also being unlikely his bet screams SET to me. (and so it was) I fold, if he does this to me again down the line I call next time....He now knows you fold to an all in shove so if he wants to extract value I would expect to see smaller raises. If he does the same he's likely trying to exploit and it probably a bluff.