$10 NLHE 6-max: Should I C-Bet the FD on the Flop or Check?

$10 NL HE 6-max: Should I C-Bet the FD on the Flop or Check?

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 48/30/3.3

The results don't really matter here, but I'm wondering if it's better to check here out of position and try to make my hand by calling. Obv. I had to call once the BTN went all-in.

poker stars $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 276127
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

SB: $12.70
Hero (BB): $5.00
UTG: $4.85
CO: $15.35
BTN: $5.80

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BB with K A
UTG raises to $0.30, 1 fold, BTN calls $0.30, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.95, UTG calls $0.65, BTN calls $0.65

Flop: ($2.90) 9 6 4 (3 players)
Hero bets $2.10, UTG folds, BTN raises to $4.85 all in, Hero calls $1.95 all in

Turn: ($11.00) 4 (2 players - 2 are all in)

River: ($11.00) 5 (2 players - 2 are all in)

Cbetting is correct here. Taking the pot now isn't bad, and we likely have 15 outs against any pp (unlikely anyone is holding KK or AA given pf action) if someone shoves.

I think the c-bet is a little high (I think 1/2 pot so about $1.50 is better here)

If he has any made hand here then you are behind so I reason that the C-bet should be on the smaller side.

As played, its definitely a C-bet situation, unless his fold to c-bet is incredibly low.

The size is a little big for my liking as it folds out a few more of his bad hands and commits you to a shove, but once he does shove, I think your are correct to call.

Stu_Ungar said:

The size is a little big for my liking as it folds out a few more of his bad hands and commits you to a shove, but once he does shove, I think your are correct to call.

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Even if you check/called a shove you would have borderline odds to draw to the flush only (~[3 + 4]: 4), so the size of the cbet doesn't factor in to being committed. We're not folding AK overs and nutflush draw with a halfstack in a 3bet pot, what to consider on the size of the cbet is whether you are trying to fold out hands or play a multiway pot with a big draw.

D'wilius said:

Even if you check/called a shove you would have borderline odds to draw to the flush only (~[3 + 4]: 4), so the size of the cbet doesn't factor in to being committed. We're not folding AK overs and nutflush draw with a halfstack in a 3bet pot, the only decision on the size of the cbet is whether you are trying to fold hands out or play a multiway pot with a big draw.

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We are certainly not folding. I never suggested that.

But this is a situation where I want to raise the smaller amount and keep in near100% of his range because, once we c-bet (which is correct) we are now pot committed.

So I want to be pot committed against the widest range possible.

It also gives us a bit more room on the turn and river should he flat call.

BTW, why is our hero playing with only half a stack?

Its not even the correct amount to be considered SS'd

Stu_Ungar said:

But this is a situation where I want to raise the smaller amount and keep in near100% of his range because, once we c-bet (which is correct) we are now pot committed.

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Thread hijack - if it's too much, we can take this somewhere else...

Curiosity - I've only recently started varying my cbet sizing. I've avoided it in the past cuz I was worried my hand would be face up - this way, I give no indication w a cbet whether I have air, medium strength, or a monster (though I'm worried that when I don't cbet, 34% of the time, I'm not checking my medium strength and monster hands often enough). This is 50nl and 100nl.

My default was around 70% psb. Recently I've been varying between 55% and 70%, and trying to mix it up depending more on board texture (wet vs. dry flops, A or a K on the flop) than on the strength of my hand (on a dry flop for example, I lean towards a bigger cbet whether I have anything or not, on a wet flop I lean towards a smaller cbet whether I have anything or not). Since callers are more likely to hit a wet flop than a dry flop, the idea is that I'll lose less when I have to give up the hand.

However, I haven't noticed much of a difference in what hands will call when I vary the cbet size - if they're going to call 55%, they're going to call 70%.

Here are my questions - is my variation range too narrow, and is the reasoning behind the variation ok?

slycbnew said:

My default was around 70% psb. Recently I've been varying between 55% and 70%, and trying to mix it up depending more on board texture (wet vs. dry flops, A or a K on the flop) than on the strength of my hand (on a dry flop for example, I lean towards a bigger cbet whether I have anything or not, on a wet flop I lean towards a smaller cbet whether I have anything or not). Since callers are more likely to hit a wet flop than a dry flop, the idea is that I'll lose less when I have to give up the hand.

However, I haven't noticed much of a difference in what hands will call when I vary the cbet size - if they're going to call 55%, they're going to call 70%.

Here are my questions - is my variation range too narrow, and is the reasoning behind the variation ok?

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Just as a disclaimer, I dont play 50nl+ and my apostrophe and backslash buttons arent working so this may be a bit hard to read.

I actually think the rationale behind your bet sizing should be the other way around.

If you cbet 55% pot on wet boards when you have made hands, youre giving good odds to draw (the board is wet) and youll be putting yourself in tough situations later in the hand when potential draws come in. On the flip side, on a dry board, opponents will have either hit the board or missed it so if they are going to fold to a 70% cbet, theyll probably fold to a 55% cbet too.

I would think you should cbet less and larger on wet flops so people have to give you credit for a stronger range and more and smaller on dry flops (until you get into a leveling game against people who will check-raise dry flops with air).

Fwiw, my motivation for varying my bet size has to do more with how much my opponent will fold-call based on varying bet sizes. Thus, Ill vary my bet sizes more against fish because they are less likely to notice-adapt so a more exploitive and exploitable strategy is the better route to take. As for sizing, my default cbets are generally in the 67%-75% range but Ill mix it up as wide as 35%-100% depending on villains(s).

cbet $2.50/call jam

we have 15 outs here if we dont already have the best hand.

we need to be good 20% of the time here so insta profits!

Not that it was a big money game or anything but you shouldn't really rely on a flush draw too often hero show have keep his chips or at least checked then if raised folded...

jheated5 said:

Not that it was a big money game or anything but you shouldn't really rely on a flush draw too often hero show have keep his chips or at least checked then if raised folded...

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fold with like insane odds with 15 outs, lol

jheated5 said:

Not that it was a big money game or anything but you shouldn't really rely on a flush draw too often hero show have keep his chips or at least checked then if raised folded...

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Well, it's most likely not just a fd, an A or K on the turn or river is likely to make our hand good. Villain here is playing a half stack, and playing a half stack means shoving an overpair (TT-QQ) or 9x is actually a good play, because of stack to pot ratios - in other words, since it's likely he only has a pair, and likely that it's not AA or KK (he didn't re-raise preflop), we probably have 15 cards that make our hand the best at showdown. 15 outs makes Hero's hand statistically a favorite to win the hand after the river. If we have that statistical edge, and we're getting such a great price to call ($1.95 to win $9.85), this is a no brainer call, and definitely a hand to be aggressive with. This is what Jurn and D'Wilius were pointing out above, and Stu and I are definitely thinking the same.

Try thinking about the ranges of hands villain is likely to show up with and your equity against that range. Sure, villain will show up w a set here once in a while, so we'd only have 9 outs and one or two of them will be dirty, but that flop is actually pretty awesome for us, no way you're checking or folding to a raise (unless you hate money).

Oh yeah, whether this is a micro game or a nosebleed game has no impact on whether you should play this hand aggressively or not. If your stack to pot ratios are based on 50 bb's effective, this is a hand to play aggressively at $2nl and at $1Knl.

WurlyQ - great feedback, thanks, I'll chew on it.

I've been curious about trying to vary my c-bets. I'm generally between 67% to 100% of pot depending on how I've set up Table Ninja recently (still vary it from that point sometimes). But here, with 50BBs, I generally like to commit with AK if I hit an A or K on the flop. With a flush draw, I was wondering about maybe a 1/3 pot c-bet and see what happens. Basically I'm hoping my smaller bet keeps my opponent from committing with a small pair. If he just calls and I miss on the turn, then I could get away from the hand if the odds are wrong to call on the river. A check might also keep the pot smaller than it ended up being after my large c-bet. I may as well push all-in myself with the c-bet if I have to call a shove anyway, isn't that right?

I like your play. Only thing different I would have done is made it 4-5x the raise PF to compensate for being OOP. I like the Cbet it could have very well taken down the pot and even if not you have many outs.

*After reading the above posts I realized I sound like a less professional version than everyone that posted above. Thanks guys.

slycbnew said:

Thread hijack - if it's too much, we can take this somewhere else...

Curiosity - I've only recently started varying my cbet sizing. I've avoided it in the past cuz I was worried my hand would be face up - this way, I give no indication w a cbet whether I have air, medium strength, or a monster (though I'm worried that when I don't cbet, 34% of the time, I'm not checking my medium strength and monster hands often enough). This is 50nl and 100nl.

My default was around 70% psb. Recently I've been varying between 55% and 70%, and trying to mix it up depending more on board texture (wet vs. dry flops, A or a K on the flop) than on the strength of my hand (on a dry flop for example, I lean towards a bigger cbet whether I have anything or not, on a wet flop I lean towards a smaller cbet whether I have anything or not). Since callers are more likely to hit a wet flop than a dry flop, the idea is that I'll lose less when I have to give up the hand.

However, I haven't noticed much of a difference in what hands will call when I vary the cbet size - if they're going to call 55%, they're going to call 70%.

Here are my questions - is my variation range too narrow, and is the reasoning behind the variation ok?

Click to expand...

Wow please check out my thread in the general strategy forum. I was wondering about my Cbetting too.