I'm not that experienced with overbets.. could V be bluffing here??
from my understanding his big raise makes no sense because i represent a nutty hand and if i was bluffing i would fold to a much smaller raise.
so with his raise he is saying he has QJ or a srtaight flush because we both can't have QQ, JJ and the royal..
so i thought he might put me on the hand i actually had and try to bluff me out??
I would try to not overthink this spot. You overbet substantially and he regardless of that raised big. I would just fold here.
He might have tried to XR flop and induce on the turn. You are paying 2:1 so he would have to be bluffing 66% of the time to break even. High variance spot that I would want to avoid
I would try to not overthink this spot. You overbet substantially and he regardless of that raised big. I would just fold here.
He might have tried to XR flop and induce on the turn. You are paying 2:1 so he would have to be bluffing 66% of the time to break even. High variance spot that I would want to avoid
I dont like you played this hand at all. First of calling 74s OOP is super - ev. If you want to play a bad Hand like this it a allways a 3bet. And I'm pretty sure that that one is also - ev. Clear fold preflop.
Flop is played fine. Turn is a sizingerror in my opinion. You want to size bigger, smth like 50-75% pot. River is if anything a call to the overbet, never a reraise. But I'd be leading here. Don't understand why you would not lead here. Also if I'd lead and would get raised I'd have a crying call if not a fold depending on the player. What you are doing is essentially turning you're flush into a bluff saying "ey dude, I have a full-house" Never expecting you'll get called by worse here.
So yeah, mistakes were made. Make you're life easy by folding such hands preflop. they won't make you money in the longrun.
I'm not that experienced with overbets.. could V be bluffing here??
from my understanding his big raise makes no sense because i represent a nutty hand and if i was bluffing i would fold to a much smaller raise.
so with his raise he is saying he has QJ or a srtaight flush because we both can't have QQ, JJ and the royal..
so i thought he might put me on the hand i actually had and try to bluff me out??
Good morning Haze of Spade, how you doing? Very nice hand! Thanks for sharing with the CardsChat community, it is awesome for our game improvement.
For the analysis let's try to consider not only your hole cards when you call down for odds, being deep stacked, and having another deep stacked Villain in the Hand. It is a great spot for implied odds and perfect for calling with a bunch of pocket pairs and suited connectors, even three gappers. (and tons of other combos). Why is it good?
Because we have to play just 1 blind to compete for 100 BB of the player in the Button plus 186 blinds from the SB player, which have 300 BB+ when the action happens. So we pay 1 to win 286 blinds in the best case scenario possible. If he hit a Full-House, a Straight, a Straight Flush in boards that Button and SB went with all force and with worse hands. We consider not only the value of the pot in the Flop, but how much the pot can grow in future streets (Turn and River), and how much stack behind the adversaries have.
The 100 BB open raises a very good size for calling, both from the SB and the BB. It is good for the SB to call with a pretty wide range, because Hero in the BB is likely to call too, in a situation like that, also with a large range, and Hero BB is deep stacked, which is good for the player in the SB.
What do we call here when we have such amazing implied odds, both from the SB and the BB?
Some players will call here even with a wider range. IMO, it is a matter of choice.
Also, both SB and BB could be making a 3bet or a Squeeze with 88+, T9s+ J9s+ Q9s+ KTs+, ATs+, etc. However it will not play bad as well if we call these hands from SB and BB having great odds. (sometimes we will find some AKs, AQs, AJs in SB's calling range)
So, the BTN have a large range of 40% hands that could be mini-raising in position. And when SB and BB call, they also have a thousand of hands in their ranges.
The call preflop is excellent for implied odds with a large range.
Complicated spot. However, the Button will not have many Jacks in its range right now. Maybe some Queen? However, Button will have a lot of pocket pairs, low and mid pocket pairs and hands that could connect with this flop, such as T8, T9, KT, 98, 97, etc.
I like your line of checking this flop. It is very bad to bet here, because when we call a mini-raise from the BB we can easily have 50% of hands, and, although hero has position over the SB, the player in the SB knows your range in a situation like that is even weaker that the SB's range, and not likely to hit this flop.
If you are betting 100% of your flush draws in the Flop, in a situation like that, maybe you are burning money. The Flop is heavy connected with overcards. If Hero in the BB hits a Flush in the Turn, Hero is never sure if it is already coolered with a higher Flush.
Everybody knows that SB and BB are not likely to have the Ace of Hearts in a situation like this or strong combinations with an Ace of Heart or a King of Heart.
SB and BB have no sets right now. Once in a while, SB and BB will show a Jx in a spot like that, or QQ. QQ more rare because SB and BB could be 3betting and not flatting here. But it is possible depending on the player. (how passive he likes to be Preflop, and SB has only 5% 3bet Preflop, we might induce he likes to call from SB, even with stronger combos).
If the player in the BB had Jx, I would recommend a bet for value and protection, to extract value from the Qx that both BTN and SB will have a lot, from the Straight Draws and Flush Draws that SB and BB will have, and there are some Turn that we in the BB can continue firing and some other Turns that destroy our action.
It is not because we are not playing too much GTO at the micros that we don't need to balance our ranges and our actions: what do we most of the times when we call a raise from the BTN, 3handed? Let's everybody think about, please, before giving the answer very fast.
Answer:
Most of times we have nothing from the BB, we hit nothing, and we are checking from the BB versus aggressor because it is more likely to catch up its bluffs and to get out when we have a strange situation. It is not wrong to bet, sometimes we bet. But it is not very common a donkey-bet in cash games. I like to do it for value versus a sticky Villain that could not only call my donkey-bet, but Check-Raise right off the bat.
Here, as well it is an easy call from us in the BB, because it is like 1/3 pot, and if SB really had some Flushes in its range would it be betting so small? Or SB bet smalls because he desires mostly to be check-raise here? What does SB bet here? (non-sense moves makes we wonder a lot of things. IMO, bet 1/3 pot in a Turn like that is really suspicious). Because it is not a good Turn texture for bluffs. Although nobody will have many overcards here, no one will fold a Kh, to 1/3 pot bet size, Ah, 9h (sometimes), some players will never fold any King or any Ace in this situation, at the micros, those very passive and recreational ones.
Some players with a Pocket 66 that have a Heart will never fold here, and if hits the Flush in the River, it will give us all of its money. (SB is not a fish).
I like our call here. If we raise we make the SB fold all of its bluffs and continue only with Straights Draws, or Straights, or Flush Draws with a King or Ace, or the Flush itself. Some passive players will call a Check-Raise here with QT, having Two Pair in the face of this turn.
Some others will never fold to a raise any set or trips in a spot like that: Some crazy guy that decided to call down QQ from the SB (we never know), some other guy from the SB with Jx will not be folding at least in the Turn for a Check-Raise. But these are whales and fishes.
For the stats you gave upon the SB, she/he is a Tight Passive almost 100% of times.
We have a pretty good sample of hands (590 hands), to be certain, with faith that when this Villain bets IT IS VALUE!!!
Villain only bets values, and, in a turn like that it will have at minimum a straight. Villain has Aggression Factor of 1! For God Sake! Villain is almost betting only the nutted hands.
However, given price it is impossible to fold here. Because 1/3 sizing in the Turn might represent a lot of weaker hands in his ranges that are trying to do something fancy.
We call here to see a SB check later. If SB forces another BET it is an easy fold with lower flushes and other marginal hands. Easy fold guys. Unless, of course, SB gave us again ridiculous odds. like betting again 1/3 pot, 1/4 pot and etc.
Anyway, again, 1/3 bet sizing in the Turn coming from a Passive like that, in a board that eventually will have Boats, Full-Houses, Straights, Flushes, Straight Flushes and even Royal Straight Flushes, it seems that SB's Villain is screaming at your door "RAAAISE! RAISE! RAISE!"
Why do we bet here my friend? For value? When you bet you expect SB to pay you in a scenario like that with Jx? SB will have a lot of Jx, because it is deep stacked. SB also have the information that you are far away from having a Flush nuts here. Even if you have, you cannot sustain pressure. When SB raises you in the River he could have completely air, but you cannot call "too see", or call "because the price was good" (not only for these reasons). When the SB raises you in the River, it represents at minimum better Flushes than us in the BB, and Full-Houses.
From time to time, having an Ace of Hearts, only will be sufficient to represent the Royal Flush. And put a lot of pressure in your range. When SB raises you which hands can continue? The Flush Nuts, The Full House and the Royal. So SB have plenty of room for bluffing us in the BB when we bet a spot like that with marginal hands.
Specially an overbet like that! We bet 20 BB in a pot of 10, having a weaker range. If we had the Nuts in the Turn would we be calling down? When you bet strong you really expect to be paid by worse hands? For a Jx, or a Straight? Or a Queen x?
On the other side of things, we bet 20 BB in a pot of 10 in position, and the SB folds all of his bluffs and trashs and marginal hands such as Queens, and 9x, and Jx's, so how do we gain value betting here? When SB checks, it is a check-behind, because I do not have a great value hand here.
Perhaps, if we had 99 and got the Boat in the River we could be betting here, but not that Strong. Because even a Boat with 99 could be losing for several parts of this weaker tight passive player.
REMEMBER: We have a deep stack and the SB also has a Deep Stack. If the SB raises you in the River, the SB desires with passion to take all of our 186 BB's.
Besides, for a low flush in a situation like that, 10 blinds is a huge pot for Big Blind defense. So, when you overbet river your flush is a value hand or a bluff hand?
PS: I don't believe the SB raise in the Rive is good too. It will never be paid by anything worse because both are deep stacked. Put a note on this guy as soon as possible.
that's what i thought, he could have like KhQ or even a J because that blocks many full house combos. he seemed to be a competend opponent so i wouldn't be surprised if he had.
I dont like you played this hand at all. First of calling 74s OOP is super - ev. If you want to play a bad Hand like this it a allways a 3bet. And I'm pretty sure that that one is also - ev. Clear fold preflop.
Flop is played fine. Turn is a sizingerror in my opinion. You want to size bigger, smth like 50-75% pot. River is if anything a call to the overbet, never a reraise. But I'd be leading here. Don't understand why you would not lead here. Also if I'd lead and would get raised I'd have a crying call if not a fold depending on the player. What you are doing is essentially turning you're flush into a bluff saying "ey dude, I have a full-house" Never expecting you'll get called by worse here.
So yeah, mistakes were made. Make you're life easy by folding such hands preflop. they won't make you money in the longrun.
the reason i overbet the river is because V's range is capped and mine not.
after he check's it's unlikely for him to have a full house or flush while i still can have that.
i will bluff this spot a lot so i need some value hands for balance. if i only bet full houses here i would be overbluffing i think? i mean he leads 1/3 (which is a good sizing i think because the BU check must not mean weakness so he is betting in 2 strong ranges) but after he checks the river he shows extrem weakness!
against a fish i would bet smaller, even underbet depending on his tendencies.
but how would you size the river or would u even check back??
the reason i overbet the river is because V's range is capped and mine not. after he check's it's unlikely for him to have a full house or flush while i still can have that.
Check-raising for value is a play, which many people will make, when they have a nutted hand. This is kind of the whole point. He fool you to believe, he has a weak hand by checking to you, and then BOOM there he is with a big check-raise, when u take the bait
