$10 NLHE 6-max: QQ vs PF caller, OP OTF

Villain makes a TAG competent impression so far.

He is repping a set here, do I float his raise or just go away? Do I even consider re-raising? I c bet a lot so that could be a factor. I could call, bet again OTT and if he raises again just go??? Or just 3 bet smallish OTF and fold to his shove??I cant let myself be pushed off an OP too easy, but IDK.....

poker stars $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1772983
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (UTG): $10.82 - VPIP: 18, PFR: 13, 3B: 4, AF: 2.3, Hands: 259887
MP: $15.05 - VPIP: 33, PFR: 11, 3B: 0, AF: 2.9, hands: 119
CO: $6.05 - VPIP: 43, PFR: 7, 3B: 1, AF: 1.1, Hands: 547
BTN: $11.13 - VPIP: 21, PFR: 18, 3B: 7, AF: 3.2, Hands: 698
SB: $35.20 - VPIP: 21, PFR: 15, 3B: 4, AF: 3.0, Hands: 818
BB: $10.78 - VPIP: 16, PFR: 13, 3B: 4, AF: 2.8, Hands: 222

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is UTG with Q :club: Q :heart:
Hero raises to $0.30, MP calls $0.30, 3 folds, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.95) 3 :diamond: J :heart: 2 :diamond: (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.50, MP folds, BB raises to $1.50, Hero ?

fletchdad said:

Or just 3 bet smallish OTF and fold to his shove??

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Don't do that, ever.

Calling and bet/folding most turns is a viable line, as is just folding the flop. Spots like these are tough, and I'll write more tomorrow, but these spots mostly come down to how wide you think villain raises the flop.

Do we know anything about his cold-calling range? And it's possible that he thinks there's some AQ+ in your UTG raising range, but hard to know if he uses stats/pays attention. Depending on how often you are c-betting, he could be doing this with anything from an underpair to the jack to ATC. I know that I love abusing players who c-bet greater than 60% or so, when I think it's unlikely they've connected with the flop.

I'm kinda rambling now... But a lot of it will depend on how he views your preflop raise, and whether he thinks your c-bet is for value or not. But for me in that spot, I'm not folding. I'm calling the flop and playing poker from there, and probably willing to get stacks in if the turn is a blank. It does get a bit weird if a non-blank comes, because there would be $3.95 in the pot, with effective stacks left at $9 (I think). It's an awkward SPR to have on the turn really, because you don't have enough to make effective bets on the river if any action happens on the turn.

Edit: I'm a FR player, so some of this may not be relevant. I'm also not used to the differences between Stars and Merge (which is where I play), but at least at Merge, there are plenty of 10NL players capable of raising the flop with ATC if they think you're bluff c-betting.

c9h13no3 said:

Calling and bet/folding most turns

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This.

I bet almost pot on the flop, that would make you look way stronger. He easily can have some draws here or just a jack, and testing your weakness. He would think twice about raising you with jack. Its multi way pot and theres draw. So bet more next time. But now, Im just folding. Or, idk at least you have position. If he fires turn - fold I think he would not push turn with nothing.

Hm maybe I'm a donk but I say raise..am almost ok with stacking off here. I think aj or jdxd or several hands that hero is ahead of could turn up here. How is everyone positive its jj, 33 or 22?

Poker_play said:

Hm maybe I'm a donk but I say raise..am almost ok with stacking off here. I think aj or jdxd or several hands that hero is ahead of could turn up here. How is everyone positive its jj, 33 or 22?

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No one's positive of that... But it's certainly not out of the realm of possible. I don't know how much set-mining tends to happen here, but villain flats the UTG raise with 4 to act behind him... Seems possible.

I say flat and see what happens on turn.

c9h13no3 said:

Don't do that, ever.

Calling and bet/folding most turns is a viable line, as is just folding the flop. Spots like these are tough, and I'll write more tomorrow, but these spots mostly come down to how wide you think villain raises the flop.

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By b/f turn are you saying you'd raise his bet when he fires again and fold to any further betting (except on Q turn)? Just checking I'm reading that right as I'm not quite seeing how raising his bet on the turn (since he hardly ever checks turn to us) to fold to a shove is going to be even close to optimal. It sounds like you've written as though hero is OOP (which I could see a case for b/f) when he isn't.

Tanner1 said:

I say flat and see what happens on turn.

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A taggy looking villian will hardly ever shut down on the turn so I think you're pretty much guarenteed to see another bullet from almost his entire range. So if you're planning to just fold on any non Q turn I hate flatting to see what happens.

BlueNowhere said:

A taggy looking villian will hardly ever shut down on the turn so I think you're pretty much guarenteed to see another bullet from almost his entire range. So if you're planning to just fold on any non Q turn I hate flatting to see what happens.

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I agree that you will likely see another bullet alot of the time and i think it just turns into a math problem and a little bit of soul reading but whats the alternative. 1. folding on flop (just seems a little to nitty for me)
2.Reraising(even just clicking it back leaves us with $8.02 pot of $4.95 villan has about same amount as us and opens us up to a villan shove that we have to fold to $7.98 to call to win $12.93 = a little more than 1.5/1. I dont mind bloating the pot here ip if your planning on stacking off but i would not, you can find better spots)

Tanner1 said:

I agree that you will likely see another bullet alot of the time and i think it just turns into a math problem and a little bit of soul reading but whats the alternative. 1. folding on flop (just seems a little to nitty for me)
2.Reraising(even just clicking it back leaves us with $8.02 pot of $4.95 villan has about same amount as us and opens us up to a villan shove that we have to fold to $7.98 to call to win $12.93 = a little more than 1.5/1. I dont mind bloating the pot here ip if your planning on stacking off but i would not, you can find better spots)

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I agree folding seems nitty and I'm not saying I would (I'm not 100% sure what I'd do here tbh). I'm just questioning why people would choose certain lines. I mean what range are you giving him at this point and what part of that range shuts down on the turn or stacks off when a Q hits to make calling optimal?

BlueNowhere said:

By b/f turn are you saying you'd raise his bet when he fires again and fold to any further betting (except on Q turn)? Just checking I'm reading that right as I'm not quite seeing how raising his bet on the turn (since he hardly ever checks turn to us) to fold to a shove is going to be even close to optimal. It sounds like you've written as though hero is OOP (which I could see a case for b/f) when he isn't.

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Flat the flop raise and bet approximately 60%-70% of turn cards.

baudib1 said:

Flat the flop raise and bet approximately 60%-70% of turn cards.

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So you're raising the turn when he bets? Or do you mean call and if he checks the turn (which I don't think he will do often) then bet?

Sorry, I kept thinking we were OOP.

Call turn/call river a lot, folding on a lot of scary cards if he keeps betting.

Yea I thought it sounded like you and C9 were writing as thought hero was OOP.

BlueNowhere said:

I agree folding seems nitty and I'm not saying I would (I'm not 100% sure what I'd do here tbh). I'm just questioning why people would choose certain lines. I mean what range are you giving him at this point and what part of that range shuts down on the turn or stacks off when a Q hits to make calling optimal?

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After work im going to crunch some # and do some hand combos, i feel this is a spot that comes up alot and maybe doing the math will help me and the rest of us in this situation.

Old hand that i found kind of close to same situation
full tilt poker Game #25680040438: Table Mach 10 - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 04:08:45 ET - 2010/11/19
Seat 1: LuckieLaydee ($4.65)
Seat 2: Villan ($7.72)
Seat 3: Hero ($11.72)
Seat 4: Goso ($4.05)
Seat 5: abcdef75 ($7.15)
Seat 6: gonchar64 ($9.52)
Seat 7: sanrs ($9.60)
Seat 8: w_thilo ($4)
Seat 9: matej200 ($4.01)
Villan posts the small blind of $0.05
Hero posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Jc Ac]
Goso folds
abcdef75 folds
gonchar64 folds
sanrs calls $0.10
w_thilo folds
matej200 folds
LuckieLaydee folds
Villan calls $0.05
Hero has 8 seconds left to act
Hero raises to $0.50
sanrs folds
Villan calls $0.40
*** FLOP *** [Qs Qh Ah]
Villan checks
Hero bets $0.60
Villan has 15 seconds left to act
Villan raises to $1.50
Hero calls $0.90
*** TURN *** [Qs Qh Ah] [7h]
Villan checks
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero bets $1.90
Villan folds
Uncalled bet of $1.90 returned to Hero
Hero mucks
Hero wins the pot ($3.83)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $4.10 | Rake $0.27
Board: [Qs Qh Ah 7h]
Seat 1: LuckieLaydee (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: Villan (small blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 3: Hero (big blind) collected ($3.83), mucked
Seat 4: Goso didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: abcdef75 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: gonchar64 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: sanrs folded before the Flop
Seat 8: w_thilo didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: matej200 didn't bet (folded)