$10 NLHE 6-max: QQ OOP vs 3 bet pre

fletchdad

fletchdad

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Small sample but his 3 bet% over all is 2% so how to proceed here.....


poker stars $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1772979
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BTN: $12.48 - VPIP: 18, PFR: 11, 3B: 2, AF: 2.5, Hands: 164
SB: $9.30 - VPIP: 69, PFR: 16, 3B: 0, AF: 3.8, hands: 113
BB: $10.00 - VPIP: 19, PFR: 17, 3B: 3, AF: 5.2, Hands: 288
UTG: $12.36 - VPIP: 20, PFR: 17, 3B: 4, AF: 2.9, Hands: 1195
MP: $21.17 - VPIP: 19, PFR: 13, 3B: 5, AF: 0.7, Hands: 171
Hero (CO): $10.15 - VPIP: 18, PFR: 13, 3B: 4, AF: 2.3, Hands: 259887

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is CO with Q :diamond: Q :heart:
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, BTN raises to $1.20, 2 folds, Hero ??
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Unless you've been getting out of line, giving him reasons to 3-bet wider, this is a fold.
 
Arjonius

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Folding to the 3bet is probably too tight. Even if you can put him on a very narrow range of AA KK and AK, which is 2%, you're not a huge dog, about 3:2. How confident can you be going that narrow based on 164 hands?

Even vs this range, you're slightly ahead of AK, plus if you assume he's pretty likely to stack off with AA or with KK on a non-A flop, you can make a case for calling the 0.90 to set mine, albeit it would be better to have higher implied odds.

If we assume his range is only a little broader, 3%, QQ is favored.

I think I'd 4-bet to $3 to $3.50, which would leave me roughly a pot-sized bet behind. If he 5-bet shoves, I'd need to be about 50/50 to call, which seems more likely than when he had only 3-bet, so I can fold. If he calls, I can decide what to do after seeing the flop.
 
WVHillbilly

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4bet/folding is really really bad. We either 4bet/call or fold now. We're just not deep enough to set mine.
 
nabmom

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4bet/folding is really really bad. We either 4bet/call or fold now. We're just not deep enough to set mine.

With 100BB why aren't we deep enough to set mine? And with QQ it goes a bit beyond just set mining. Not a premium hand but close to it.

I'd call and check-raise his cbet. Or raise if he checks. What are his cbet stats like?
 
tenbob

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His overall 3 bet stat is pretty useless. Lots of players 3 bet much lighter from the blinds, but we dont know if this is one of them. We need an overall 3bet% of 3% to stack it pre, and we dont like calling, so our standard line is a fold.

I've added additional 3bet stuff to my hud, based on 3bet by position, concentrating on the blinds, you'd be suprised by how many regs just 3bet like 1-2% from the bb, vs some who are up on 11%. I've done this so i know whos binds i can rape. Vs unknown though and based on a 2% stat, this is a 100% standard fold.
 
tenbob

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With 100BB why aren't we deep enough to set mine? And with QQ it goes a bit beyond just set mining. Not a premium hand but close to it.

I'd call and check-raise his cbet. Or raise if he checks. What are his cbet stats like?

Because flopping a set dosnt guarntee a stack. Lots of times he has KK on a AQ2 board, has AKs on a 9 hi flop. If we are deeper (like 200bb min) then set mine is fine.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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His overall 3 bet stat is pretty useless. Lots of players 3 bet much lighter from the blinds, but we dont know if this is one of them. We need an overall 3bet% of 3% to stack it pre, and we dont like calling, so our standard line is a fold.

I've added additional 3bet stuff to my hud, based on 3bet by position, concentrating on the blinds, you'd be suprised by how many regs just 3bet like 1-2% from the bb, vs some who are up on 11%. I've done this so i know whos binds i can rape. Vs unknown though and based on a 2% stat, this is a 100% standard fold.
And as a general rule of thumb, most players 3-bet 1.5 times more often from the BB than their overall 3-bet percentage. Positional 3-bet stats take just too big a sample size to converge, so rules of thumb allow you to adjust a little faster.
 
Matt Vaughan

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Soooo consensus is a fold, right??

I hate it, but I'd have to say fold here. I don't like stacking off against a possibly 2% large 3-bet range, but I also don't like set-mining QQ. Maybe that's just stubbornness on my part... But stack depth doesn't like it either :p

I'm curious to know what people think of the 3-bet sizing and what it ever tells us in this situation? Idk how valid the 3-bet stat is, since it's only over 164 hands total... But it's also 6max so theoretically more chances to 3-bet? Maybe? Knowing how many hands that particular stat is out of would be helpful.
 
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