£10 NLHE 6-max: Played TPTK very aggressively.

Thinker_145

Thinker_145

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iPoker - £0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: 76.8 BB (VPIP: 22.22, PFR: 18.52, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, hands: 27)
CO: 156.6 BB (VPIP: 61.27, PFR: 21.97, 3Bet Preflop: 6.41, Hands: 182)
BTN: 184.6 BB (VPIP: 26.14, PFR: 18.40, 3Bet Preflop: 3.40, Hands: 901)
Hero (SB): 127.9 BB
BB: 126.9 BB (VPIP: 28.47, PFR: 17.22, 3Bet Preflop: 4.64, Hands: 882)
UTG: 107.9 BB (VPIP: 40.58, PFR: 18.12, 3Bet Preflop: 3.66, Hands: 432)

6 players post ante of 0.2 BB, Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.7 BB) Hero has Q:club: A:spade:

fold, fold, CO calls 1 BB, BTN raises to 5 BB, Hero calls 4.5 BB, fold, CO calls 4 BB

Flop: (17.2 BB, 3 players) T:club: 6:spade: Q:spade:
Hero checks, CO checks, BTN bets 14 BB, Hero raises to 41.4 BB, fold, BTN raises to 141.4 BB, Hero calls 81.3 BB

Turn: (262.6 BB, 2 players) 4:spade:

River: (262.6 BB, 2 players) Q:heart:

BTN shows J:spade: K:spade: (Flush, King High) (Pre 40%, Flop 57%, Turn 84%)
Hero mucks Q:club: A:spade: (Three of a Kind, Queens) (Pre 60%, Flop 43%, Turn 16%)
BTN wins 263.8 BB

Okay I know I shouldn't play TPTK so aggressively against a TAG but looking back at the hand I can't really get away without losing a lot can I? I mean is it really reasonable to fold the flop? I suppose I raised too much and then couldn't get away from the shove.

But if I just call the flop I have nut flush draw and then trips with top kicker on the river. Perhaps the paired board would have scared the V so I might have lost less.

This is the biggest hand I have lost this month and it was really a moment of impulse rather than careful thought. Heck just a few hands back I had folded the exact same hand on the flop with a huge check raise from a TAG so I am by no means incapable of folding TPTK. It's just this instance where I felt I have the better hand. The way the V played the hand it was KK/AA written all over it so even though it turned out to be a massive draw I shouldn't have played it like that.

What I know about the V is that he would NOT shove KK/AA on the flop so once he shoves I am not scared of that. The only possibility is a set or just the draw he had. He could also have QTs.

I try very hard to be disciplined in my game and this is the first real let off of the month. Should I feel really bad about this? Or it's not exactly terrible play?

Of course looking back at the hand I was not exactly a big underdog but nevertheless any other time I might be even more behind.
 
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hffjd2000

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At start, BTN is representing a very powerful hand.

I think you should not be very aggressive on the flop. I tend to just call/fold and live for another day.
 
c9h13no3

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That's a pretty wet board. I think I just donk that flop, hoping we pin in some of the CO fish's money. When in three way pots, play to maximize value against the fish.
 
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Henreiman

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OOP I'm 3betting pre for value, this is an easy button squeeze spot and we don't want to give odds to the limper.

As played, this is pretty standard.
 
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rumsey182

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i think i flat the flop if i didn't raise pre but raise pre
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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OOP I'm 3betting pre for value, this is an easy button squeeze spot and we don't want to give odds to the limper.
1) This is not a squeeze spot. That requires a cold caller in between the raiser and you.
2) You WANT to give odds to the limper, he's the terrible player. Knocking out the bad player is just burning money.
3) It's so hard to 3-bet AQ for value against a taggy reg. Villain has to call with 10% of his hands in order for 3-betting AQ to show a profit.

It's a very very standard call here preflop, to keep the fish in, and to keep the reg's range wider. If there were no fish, and villain had like a 40% fold to 3-bet rate, then we can talk about 3-betting.
 
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byrnsiey330

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1) This is not a squeeze spot. That requires a cold caller in between the raiser and you.
2) You WANT to give odds to the limper, he's the terrible player. Knocking out the bad player is just burning money.
3) It's so hard to 3-bet AQ for value against a taggy reg. Villain has to call with 10% of his hands in order for 3-betting AQ to show a profit.

It's a very very standard call here preflop, to keep the fish in, and to keep the reg's range wider. If there were no fish, and villain had like a 40% fold to 3-bet rate, then we can talk about 3-betting.

Why would you want AQo going into a multiway pot? Especially playing out of position... I don't care how fishy your opponent is, AQo is not strong enough to encourage a multiway pot OOP. Flatting on the button might make sense to me.

Also by calling you are opening up the opportunity for a squeeze play from the BB. So now you'll be playing in a 3-bet or 4-bet pot OOP with AQo.

I would 3b pre for value. Even though the player is tight AQo does pretty well against his 3b calling range ~ JJ-55,AQs-ATs,KJs+,AQo-AJo,KQo 55%

Assuming that he 4b, QQ+, AK

Now by allowing that fish to stay in w/ a very wide range of hands our equity drops to ~35% equity

This 3b not only accomplished that of a value bet, but it also denies equity to hands like JTo that actually have pretty good equity.

If your 3b gets hands like JTo to fold you are making your opponent fold ~37% equity without any cards hitting the felt. That's a win in my book any day of the week.

The only hands I would even think about flatting would be hands that arent strong enough to 3b, maybe 22-99? JTs?

To sum up why you want to three bet here:

1. You're OOP
2. You're hand isn't strong enough for multiway pot OOP
3. You have good equity against villians calling range
4. You can let the hand go if you get 4b pretty easily.
5. YOURE OOP W/ AQo (sorry just thought I should say it again)

As played:

Big pots= Big Hands

When villian raises the flop he either has a set, or draws. You are going to want to flat his raise and try and keep the pot small as possible. I know its very hard, and it is something that I have been trying to work on myself, but my experience w/ GII on the flop w/ TPTK is:

-4.34$

I hope this helped,

Byrnsiey330
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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his 3b calling range ~ JJ-55,AQs-ATs,KJs+,AQo-AJo, KQo.

To sum up why you want to three bet here:

1. You're OOP
2. You're hand isn't strong enough for multiway pot OOP
3. You have good equity against villians calling range
4. You can let the hand go if you get 4b pretty
#1 is the only one that makes any sense.

#2. The hand is fine to be played 3-way. Especially with the fish. You aren't understanding why having the fish in the pot is so great here. Not only is he himself leaking money in the pot by playing his K4s or whatever trash looks pretty to him, but he also forces the reg to be honest with you. The reg is not going to bluff Cbet as many flops with the fish in the pot.

#3. This calling range is really optimistic for a TAG. Unless you've been screwing with him, he's not calling with 55, or AJo. Plus he'll flat some of those big hands to trap you as we'll.

#4. Being able to fold to his 4-bet isn't a good thing... This means you're kinda turning AQ into a bluff, and setting it's good equity on fire.
 
Thinker_145

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I think I should have just check called this hand. The villain would not make such a c bet with air or under pair knowing there is a fish in the pot as well. And I know the villain here could have checked the river since he plays very very tight post flop.

Sent from my Moto G using Tapatalk
 
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byrnsiey330

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#1 is the only one that makes any sense.

#2. The hand is fine to be played 3-way. Especially with the fish. You aren't understanding why having the fish in the pot is so great here. Not only is he himself leaking money in the pot by playing his K4s or whatever trash looks pretty to him, but he also forces the reg to be honest with you. The reg is not going to bluff Cbet as many flops with the fish in the pot.

#3. This calling range is really optimistic for a TAG. Unless you've been screwing with him, he's not calling with 55, or AJo. Plus he'll flat some of those big hands to trap you as we'll.

#4. Being able to fold to his 4-bet isn't a good thing... This means you're kinda turning AQ into a bluff, and setting it's good equity on fire.

#2: you lose 30% equity turning it into a multiway pot, not matter how bad the opponent.

#3: So if he isn't calling with 55, or AJo then he is folding them, which means we are gaining fold equity, which leads to even better scenarios for us.

#4: Not turning it into a bluff, we are three betting for value because we think we have the best hand. When the villian four bets the very top percentage of his range (because he is a TAG) then we can get out no problem. So not turning it into a bluff. That's like saying three betting and getting shoved on with JJ is a bluff when we fold.

I just don't understand why you would want to play AQo OOP against two opponents
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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#2: you lose 30% equity turning it into a multiway pot, not matter how bad the opponent.
Sure, you lose 20%-30% equity, but you gain 33% more money. We're not trying to win pots, we're trying to win money. There's a difference.

#3: So if he isn't calling with 55, or AJo then he is folding them, which means we are gaining fold equity
You don't want fold equity against hands you beat.

I just don't understand why you would want to play AQo OOP against two opponents
Because playing OOP against 1 bad player and 1 good player in a medium size pot is better than playing OOP against 1 good player in a big pot. Which essentially boils down to "I like money".
 
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byrnsiey330

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Sure, you lose 20%-30% equity, but you gain 33% more money. We're not trying to win pots, we're trying to win money. There's a difference.

You don't want fold equity against hands you beat.

Because playing OOP against 1 bad player and 1 good player in a medium size pot is better than playing OOP against 1 good player in a big pot. Which essentially boils down to "I like money".

You do want fold equity against hands you beat. I would rather have JTs fold its ~38% equity pre then play against it OOP when I miss the flop 2/3 of the time and get floated on and then don't know where I stand. Or when we both hit the flop and we lose a big pot.

There are plenty of times we want hands that we are beating to fold. We don't want hands that we dominate to fold, but hands that we beat there are plenty of situations.

If we can get a player to fold 37% equity when they are IP I'm doing it every single time. AQ vs. players projected range is 55%.

That means that our opponent has 45% equity and position, we want him to fold that.
 
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