$10 NLHE 6-max: Owned w/ Aces

6

6bet

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I'm afraid I've started a trend lately of winning insignificant pots with overpairs or losing huge ones...
I think I was supposed to lose money on this runout but not the max, what do you guys think?

https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/5qgtbdn

It was a 3 bet pot so I had a fairly significant range advantage when he called OOP pre, but the rainbow flop evened things out.

Once he calls my half pot cbet I think I have a significant range disadvantage, but the Qd on the turn would favor my range slightly.

I went for 1/2 pot again, though I'm not sure about this sizing. Again he calls, hurting my range.

An insignificant 8s comes on the river and this is where I got greedy. I remember feeling instinctively like I should check it back but is that too nitty? Regardless, I think 3/4 pot was too much because I priced myself in if she shoves which is exactly what happens. Gross... :confused:
 
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Sidetracked

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It's always unfortunate when your big overpair runs into an under set. I will usually lose a large part of my stack in that situation too.
 
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gustav197poker

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On the turn the bet can be smaller in size, since the rainbow board reduces the fold equity of the villain. Faced with larger sizes, you can get calls, which are essentially depolarized, and fundamentally represent the value part of the utg range. From this perspective, you should consider that you do not block any combo set and on the other hand, your range only has 2 outs of real improvement to your equity. On the river the villain check leaves you in an awkward place to lead, since the utg movement represents the strongest part of his range. Therefore, the most standard action is x / x on the river.
Greetings.
 
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fundiver199

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Whenever we bet for value, we always need to consider, what worse hands our opponent is going to call with. On the flop he can call with many worse one pair hands and some draws. However the Q on the turn was pretty bad, because JT made a straight, and QQ made a set, so there are more hands, we lose to now.

Even worse the Q also apply pressure to TT- JJ and 9X. So most likely when you make the pot this big, a decent player will fold all those hands, you are trying to get value from, and raise you with those few hands, that have you beat.

Its different, if the board runout was Q38-9-8, because then he can have hands like AQ and KQ, which even a good player will find it tough to fold. But when the runout is 938-Q-8, AQ and KQ were folded on the flop, and then he can of course not have them on the turn and river. Its also different, if he is a fish, since fish tend to call down way wider than good players.
 
moulan7

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I think you can save the last bet.
The worst hands will all fold, except maybe KQs or AQs (hearts or clubs) which you block and there are many hands that can beat you.
So as fundiver says you need to think why do you bet and that large. is it for value?
I guess occasionally some 1010 or JJ will call if they think that you bluff or if they are unable to abandon their holding.
I prefer to check back here or bet way less and fold if get raised.
 
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gustav197poker said:
On the turn the bet can be smaller in size, since the rainbow board reduces the fold equity of the villain. Faced with larger sizes, you can get calls, which are essentially depolarized, and fundamentally represent the value part of the utg range. From this perspective, you should consider that you do not block any combo set and on the other hand, your range only has 2 outs of real improvement to your equity. On the river the villain check leaves you in an awkward place to lead, since the utg movement represents the strongest part of his range. Therefore, the most standard action is x / x on the river.
Greetings.
Click to expand...


Hello, just to be sure I understand what you are saying: because the board is rainbow, this reduces the amount of draws the villain would call with, which depolarizes his calling range to being heavily made up of value, correct? I get what you mean that if I'm behind only making a set will improve my equity.
 
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fundiver199 said:
Whenever we bet for value, we always need to consider, what worse hands our opponent is going to call with. On the flop he can call with many worse one pair hands and some draws. However the Q on the turn was pretty bad, because JT made a straight, and QQ made a set, so there are more hands, we lose to now.

Even worse the Q also apply pressure to TT- JJ and 9X. So most likely when you make the pot this big, a decent player will fold all those hands, you are trying to get value from, and raise you with those few hands, that have you beat.

Its different, if the board runout was Q38-9-8, because then he can have hands like AQ and KQ, which even a good player will find it tough to fold. But when the runout is 938-Q-8, AQ and KQ were folded on the flop, and then he can of course not have them on the turn and river. Its also different, if he is a fish, since fish tend to call down way wider than good players.
Click to expand...



Thanks for your opinion, I like your analysis. I agree that the Q was not a good card, one of the reasons I was tempted to check back the river.
 
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gustav197poker

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6bet said:
Hello, just to be sure I understand what you are saying: because the board is rainbow, this reduces the amount of draws the villain would call with, which depolarizes his calling range to being heavily made up of value, correct? I get what you mean that if I'm behind only making a set will improve my equity.
Click to expand...


I mean that in a 3-bet pot and then double barrel, you will only receive calls from hands that you don't block. For example Q-Q in rank v, I could play this way. (check-call). Any hand of two couples in rank v, utg could also protect (check-call). Therefore, there are many combinations of the villain, who can continue in this texture. On the river, our aces are transformed into a bluff catcher. Because now, only the strongest part of the utg range has continued.
 
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ZeZe2005

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in this board you could have done nothing different but as a general advice i would overbet the flop because with aces you block a lot of the hands on the top of his UTG range so by betting 2X pot you are putting him in a very tough spot with his whole range and with your pocket aces you block AK AQ AJ A10 so he cant have some of his better hands thus losing some equity which will cause him to fold a lot of hands against a 2X pot bet
 
TheDude6622

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There is a way to get away from this hand. Once you get called on the flop and the Q hits, that puts the straight possibility on the board. We can definitely slow down and check back and see what the river brings. If they bet big on the river, we can find that fold.
 
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fundiver199

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TheDude6622 said:
There is a way to get away from this hand. Once you get called on the flop and the Q hits, that puts the straight possibility on the board. We can definitely slow down and check back and see what the river brings. If they bet big on the river, we can find that fold.
Click to expand...

Or we can call and still not lose our entire stack. A check behind on the turn looks weak and induce both bluffs and overvaluation, so I would be pretty hesitant to fold aces. It depends on his bet sizing though. If he overbet jam, sure then we can get away. But any normal bet I am snap calling.
 
0815am

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If you bet river it must be a bet fold.
Especially given sizing, villain has 0 fold equity so he will have a set at least.

Queen on the turn is also not a great card. I might just check back and reevaluate river.
 
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