$10 NLHE 6-max: OOP in 3-bet pot with TPTK facing a second barrel

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ScottishMatt

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poker stars $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 2241273
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BTN: $5.38
SB: $15.19
BB: $10.13
UTG: $14.73
Hero (MP): $11.10
CO: $10.00

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is MP with Q
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A
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1 fold, Hero raises to $0.30, CO raises to $0.90, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.60

Flop: ($1.95) 7
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7
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Q
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(2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $1.30, Hero calls $1.30

Turn: ($4.55) J
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(2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $3.50, Hero folds

Had a small sample but villain was playing around 24/20 and had been 3-betting a lot. I don't like a 4-bet cause if we get shoved in I'm disgusted with myself. Flop is obviously a call as he can be firing way worse. We have to fold the turn though right?
 
Aleksei

Aleksei

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If he has worse otf he has KQ and QT WAY more often than QJ. Plus a Broadway that connects to the top card is a scary and barrelable card, and he's giving you good odds to call.

So, effing call.
 
xdeucesx

xdeucesx

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well if were going to flat 3b oop w/AQ here, we really can't fold the turn imo.

What did the J turn do that changed his range here? QJ is ahead, but were crushing his range in this spot and it's not a bad card for him to barrel, since our 88/99/1010 are folding + any other rando ax's we float with.

If your going to play this hand pre in the way you did, you really have to call this turn and i'm only really folding if the river is a K. Besides that, i'm calling turn/calling off otr imo
 
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Nylan

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Why fold ?! was it a very tight player ?

obv. he gets 1010/JJ or QK , but I should fold :p
 
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ScottishMatt

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well if were going to flat 3b oop w/AQ here, we really can't fold the turn imo.

What did the J turn do that changed his range here? QJ is ahead, but were crushing his range in this spot and it's not a bad card for him to barrel, since our 88/99/1010 are folding + any other rando ax's we float with.

If your going to play this hand pre in the way you did, you really have to call this turn and i'm only really folding if the river is a K. Besides that, i'm calling turn/calling off otr imo

This was a while back. The J probably didn't change his range, if anything it helps us. Surely that means he is less likely to bluff on a card that helps our range more than his range?

Like, the board texture didn't change at all. He gains almost zero fold equity with this card so I can't see him wanting to bluff it. So it's not that I thought the J strengthens his range much here, simply that his double barrel bluff frequency here is extremely low.

I've been thinking along similar lines recently, in that we have to call y street because we played x street as such. Wrong way to go about it IMO.

His sizing also scared the **** out of me. If he did assume that card added FE then why barrel so large, just looks like he wants SPR so low I call any river. He also isn't going to triple barrel bluff after we call such a large bet here OTT but it's not like we can ever fold OTR.

Anyway this was an old hand and I can't even recall it.
 
xdeucesx

xdeucesx

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if your not willing to GII wAQs on q77J , then don't flat a 3b oop, call flop, fold turn. Your line is so exploitable this way you know?

Your saying he knows not to bluff bc it doesn't help his range, but if your going to actually lay down Q's up here, i'd be double barreling every single turn card too. If he's thinking enough to realize your statement, then he's thinking enough to believe he can make a nit fold

(not that your a nit :), just in this given hand)
 
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ScottishMatt

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So what do we think he is betting here?
 
xdeucesx

xdeucesx

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So what do we think he is betting here?

If you guys have like any history at all and your willing to fold 2p in this spot, just bet his whole range.

I mean ya he can have AA/KK here sometimes and were fooked, but if he's 3b wide, he can 3b KQ, Q10, AJ, KJ, AK

All hands that would bet the turn
 
bgomez89

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If you're getting 3bet a ton just ****ing punish him already and 4bet him 2.5x
 
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ScottishMatt

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If you guys have like any history at all and your willing to fold 2p in this spot, just bet his whole range.

I mean ya he can have AA/KK here sometimes and were fooked, but if he's 3b wide, he can 3b KQ, Q10, AJ, KJ, AK

All hands that would bet the turn

We don't have any history. So he has no clue about my tendencies.

Why would QT/AJ/KJ bet the turn?

The board is unchanged and he has no reason to believe I am folding here. Going for a massive a valuebet OTT when he has marginal SDV seems stupid, no?

KQ is the same. The J is pretty much the worst card for KQ and I don't think it doubles it here. Perhaps if the flop contained a FD then he would bet/bet.
 
xdeucesx

xdeucesx

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We don't have any history. So he has no clue about my tendencies.

Why would QT/AJ/KJ bet the turn?

The board is unchanged and he has no reason to believe I am folding here. Going for a massive a valuebet OTT when he has marginal SDV seems stupid, no?

KQ is the same. The J is pretty much the worst card for KQ and I don't think it doubles it here. Perhaps if the flop contained a FD then he would bet/bet.


It's 10nl mate, he has a pair. He's ahead of some pp's that could of called the flop.

Look, folding AQ here is just not kosher. Like just fold pre/4b instead of flatting oop/calling on the best flop of our life/then folding on a marginal turn
 
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baudib1

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If you're going to be completely lost when you flop this well then vs. someone 3-betting a lot you need to 4-bet AK/AQ and occasionally flat KK+ OOP.

This hand isn't really that interesting and if you made a good fold or bad fold is largely irrelevant. Mostly it's either A. you folded because you're a nit B. it's just another boring KK>AQ hand.

The thing I take away from this HH is that you're not providing the right information for anyone to tell you how to play in this spot. You don't know what his DB frequencies are and you don't know what kind of range he is 3-betting or where his 3-bets are coming from.

If you're not getting enough good information on what people's tendencies are...and honestly I don't care if it's a small sample size, you should have a pretty good idea on what someone is doing after 4-5 orbits, especially if they are 3-betting a lot and involved in 1/4 of all pots...you need to pay more attention to hands you're not involved in and think about people's ranges and betsizing and timing tells on various board textures, etc. If you can't do this cut down your tables and start getting some reads.
 
Suited Frenzy

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If you're going to be completely lost when you flop this well then vs. someone 3-betting a lot you need to 4-bet AK/AQ and occasionally flat KK+ OOP.

This hand isn't really that interesting and if you made a good fold or bad fold is largely irrelevant. Mostly it's either A. you folded because you're a nit B. it's just another boring KK>AQ hand.

The thing I take away from this HH is that you're not providing the right information for anyone to tell you how to play in this spot. You don't know what his DB frequencies are and you don't know what kind of range he is 3-betting or where his 3-bets are coming from.

If you're not getting enough good information on what people's tendencies are...and honestly I don't care if it's a small sample size, you should have a pretty good idea on what someone is doing after 4-5 orbits, especially if they are 3-betting a lot and involved in 1/4 of all pots...you need to pay more attention to hands you're not involved in and think about people's ranges and betsizing and timing tells on various board textures, etc. If you can't do this cut down your tables and start getting some reads.

This ^^^

Not much else to say really.
 
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