$10 NLHE 6-max: New table wild action, bad call?

$10 NL HE 6-max: New table wild action, bad call?

Ok so id been at the table and this hand came about on the second orbit. Unfortunetly i wasnt saving history as i was at my girlfriends house and didnt have it on.

On the button i find 10d7d its folded to me, i make a standard raise 3BB 30c, SB pops it too 60c BB calls, i think and decide to see a flop in position.

Flop comes 10s9d8d, sb checks, bb checks, i bet out $1.20, SB calls, BB reraises too $3. I call, and the SB pushes all in BB calls. Stacks where all around 100BB, i think BB had just under. Now i sit back, im probarbly not in front but with the odds im getting, im thinking i should be calling. I've got $3 out there, another $6 or so too call, and ive got TP with OESF draw.

I call, SB turns AdKd, and BB turns QdJh, BB flopped nut straight, SB had nut flush draw. River brings a 4h a brick, and i river the all mighty Jd, straight flush and take down the pot.

Did i play this badly? would you have done it differently?

straight flush?
so lets see.... pre flop pot = 180 right? flop comes you bet 120 sb calls(120) bb raise 300 so pot = 720 you need to call 180 (4 - 1) very good... you should call or re-raise (you got top pair with a straight draw and there is a flush draw.. you should re-raise) but you call and sb re-raises all in. and bb calls... if it was me.. i'm out.. sb and bb showed a strong hand... flush draw with straight draw and 2 opponents... i don't like these tips of hands.. fold.

Snap call. Assuming you it's 6 to call 24 (or it can even be 7 to call 23), you need 20% (or 23%) equity to break even on this call. Below is about the worst possible scenario in ranges and we still have 26% equity:

Board: Ts 9d 8d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 25.787% 25.57% 00.21% 138552 1164.00 { Td7d }
Hand 1: 37.106% 29.13% 07.97% 157839 43203.00 { TT-88, AdKd, AdQd, AdJd, KdQd, KdJd, QJs, 7d6d, QJo }
Hand 2: 37.106% 29.13% 07.97% 157839 43203.00 { TT-88, AdKd, AdQd, AdJd, KdQd, KdJd, QJs, 7d6d, QJo }

As for the actual hand, I shove after I get reraised. There are two many turn cards I don't like to see. A third flush card could also kill action. Thus, just get it in on the flop when given the chance.

Thats what i figured my preflop call was pretty loose, but in position with these type of one gapper suited hands ive found them to be profitable. I couldnt of really hoped for a better flop other then to flop the absolute nuts. Thanks for your responses, it didnt take me long to decide to call although i was schocked by what they turned.

You played it perfectly, as far as I'm concerned. Opening on the button is standard, you can't really fold to such a small raise preflop in position and on the flop you're (on average) in such a great situation that you should be fist-pumping when you get the money in 3-way. That you were drawing mostly dead was a fluke.

F Paulsson said:

You played it perfectly, as far as I'm concerned. Opening on the button is standard, you can't really fold to such a small raise preflop in position and on the flop you're (on average) in such a great situation that you should be fist-pumping when you get the money in 3-way. That you were drawing mostly dead was a fluke.

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Do you flat the flop raise? If so, are we folding the turn to a shove if we brick the turn? BB check raised a bet and a call so this has to be very strong. I think a big turn bet is almost always coming.

Given that we don't know opponent holdings, there are very few turn cards that we can comfortably ship it in on given unknown ranges. Any diamond or a six means we won't be getting away from this hand but this is only 12/47 cards. QT, QQ, AdQd, KdQd are possible villain holdings at this point meaning a J may not be good here.

The power of the straight flush draw here lies in the fact that we have numerous outs, though they may not all be good (if we had JdTd, we are looking at a slightly different story because now our flush draw is stronger and our straight draw is to the nuts). Thus, despite the fact that we always have good equity on the flop, we don't necessarily know which of the outs are good for us. Thus, to avoid putting us in a tough spot on the turn a majority of the time, I really like just shipping the flop after the reraise. Flawed logic?

Yup, I call the flop raise, to entice SB to call. I really don't want SB to fold because this is a great board for me to play multiway.

It's trickier to figure out what to do on the turn, but most turns, be prepared to call. If we give them a range of 88+,Adkd,AdQd,AdJd,QJ,T9,98, we're still 27% to win the pot on the turn, and it's 3-way. If SB just flats the raise as well and the turn comes a 7 and the SB leads and the BB shoves, I could probably fold. Maybe the same for a card that pairs the 8 or the 9, but short of that... I just don't know.

Edit: Don't get me wrong - I don't hate shoving. But what we really, really want is for SB to shove and BB to call (so we hit the jackpot the way it played out), and I think the second best scenario is to see the turn 3-way. I'm not entirely sure that I'm right about this, by the way. It depends quite a lot on what we think BB will do with a missed draw on the turn.

F Paulsson said:

Yup, I call the flop raise, to entice SB to call. I really don't want SB to fold because this is a great board for me to play multiway.

It's trickier to figure out what to do on the turn, but most turns, be prepared to call. If we give them a range of 88+,Adkd,AdQd,AdJd,QJ,T9,98, we're still 27% to win the pot on the turn, and it's 3-way. If SB just flats the raise as well and the turn comes a 7 and the SB leads and the BB shoves, I could probably fold. Maybe the same for a card that pairs the 8 or the 9, but short of that... I just don't know.

Edit: Don't get me wrong - I don't hate shoving. But what we really, really want is for SB to shove and BB to call (so we hit the jackpot the way it played out), and I think the second best scenario is to see the turn 3-way. I'm not entirely sure that I'm right about this, by the way. It depends quite a lot on what we think BB will do with a missed draw on the turn.

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Yes, I 100% agree that the scenario that played out was best for us. I also don't dislike the call on the flop nearly as much as I used to because as you pointed out, we still have pretty decent equity on bricked turns (far more than I had originally expected). This may even be my preferred line if I think SB tags along very very weak against the flop raise.

However, I still like a shove and here's why:

The primary reason I like just shoving the flop is that we will be faced with a tough turn decision almost no matter what and I'm becoming a believer of avoiding lines that put you in tough decisions if you can help it. The fact that we are read-less makes this principle even more true. I don't think that calling over shoving is +EV enough for us to call.

To elaborate a little more, let's look at the hand from the perspective of facing the reraise on the flop:
-SB did end up shoving, but I think this scenario is rare because at this point, I think SBs range is very wide. I also think BBs range contains very few draws because overall at 10nl, people play draws passively, and even if they were somewhat sophisticated, this is not a free card play because they are not last to act.
-Given this information, on the turn, we're either committing or not. Note that if SB calls, we have bad relative position from a decision making standpoint because BB is the aggressor (with what I think is a strong range). I guess bottom line is, if we can commit to calling most turns, even heads up against BB, then a call is best, but again, that seems like a marginal decision.

Just my 2 cents.

Edit: On a random note, I haven't really liked analyzing hand histories until now (I do most of my poker studying independently), but reading viewpoints that are backed up with thought and substance is quite helpful. Thanks