$10 NLHE 6-max: Made a weak play on the turn and now i need help

bgomez89

bgomez89

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$10 NL HE 6-max: Made a weak play on the turn and now i need help

poker stars $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 523876
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

morris741 (UTG): $15.95
tato3636 (MP): $10.00
Hero (CO): $10.80
npnstuff (BTN): $11.00
williamj1961 (SB): $3.65
FreezedSmile (BB): $9.85

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is CO with K
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K
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2 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, 1 fold, williamj1961 calls $0.25, FreezedSmile calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.90) 8
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6
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T
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(3 players)
williamj1961 bets $0.50, FreezedSmile calls $0.50, Hero raises to $2.80, williamj1961 folds, FreezedSmile calls $2.30

Turn: ($7.00) 7
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(2 players)
FreezedSmile checks, Hero checks

River: ($7.00) A
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(2 players)
FreezedSmile bets $3.80, Hero ???

some Stats

Williamj1961: 72/24/4.5 super maniac over 48 hands
FreezedSmile: 12/4/1 over 26 hands

On the flop my raise was just to put maniac all-in since i was most likely ahead but when the nit flat called that just really confused me. Could he be slow playing a flopped flush, set, or just chasing with the A high club? Maybe a pair+flush draw(i.e. Jacks or AcTx?). I don't know if my check on the turn was a dumb idea or not but i was just trying to keep the pot under control and turn my kings into a bluff catcher on the river but when the river had an A that really scared me(as he could've been chasing with the Ac)

I guess i should've bet the turn to charge those draws and then if he called just shut down on the river. Any input is helpful
 
thepokerkid123

thepokerkid123

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I shove the turn.

You've got a good redraw against the straight and a nit will fold two pair and maybe sets on this board. Checking back the turn is too easy on all of the draws in his range which other than T's are the only hands that you beat.

Shove and hope for a fold but your equity isn't terrible even when you are called.
 
burntrider

burntrider

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You def made the mistake of not showing strength again after the turn. Run, run far away from this hand and wait for another, bad timing for a check my friend.
 
B

bubonicplay

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To people saying shove what does that accomplish here? What better hands do we fold out? What worse hands call? I can see maybe value shoving turn but saying shove and we want a fold just makes no sense.

That said this is one of the few river cards that kinda sucks I just don't think a 12/4 is bluffing a ton here and you don't beat his value range. Just fold river.
 
O

orangepeeleo

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You should have def shoved the turn, as played this guy seems passive enough at 12/4 and now probably has you beat, expect to see the Ac i think, so i fold the river, but why oh why did you not shove the turn, you set up a perfect SPR with the flop raise for a pot size shove on the turn and then don't shove on a (relatively) safe turn/

If any of them were drawing to a straight here then good on them and make a note that theyre a dumbass, but you'll get called by a lot worse that now has less equity with one card to come imo, just put this range into stove AA,QQ-JJ,AQs-ATs,QTs+,JTs,AQo-ATo,QTo+,JTo and you crush it on the turn and it WILL call so you are def shoving for value on the turn, yeah he might turn up with a flopped flush or a set (might even fold this) sometimes but he shows up with plenty of draws to make it +ev in the long run imo

The fact is that he's gonna show up with the Ac here a lot and your now 70% fav against his most likely holding, AcQx
 
bgomez89

bgomez89

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oh i see. Thanks orange. Any good articles i could read about this "SPR"? i think i found some before but i never really got around to it
 
thepokerkid123

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Google "Stack to pot ratio" and you'll come up with a few good articles.

Basically what you're going to find is that when the effective stack (the size of the smallest stack, note that multiway you can have a different effective stack against each player) is many times the size of the pot then one pair type hands go down in value and when the pot sizes approaches the size of the stacks it becomes more a game of shove or fold and drawing and implied odds go out the window, you start playing with whatever made hand you can get so a big one pair hand is definately worth playing for stacks with.

As a very rough estimate, a stack to pot ratio of 5:1 or higher is the territory of implied odds hands and your one pair hands should often be playing for pot control.
When the SPR is 3:1 or lower then TPTK=the nuts (depending on hand ranges etc, but generally their range is wide enough that you want stacks in). An SPR of 2:1 or lower and you should just start shovelling your chips in either grinning because of all of the value or grinning anyway because of all of the fold equity. Although if you actually have nothing, or no fold equity, folding is still a good option.

Those numbers are very rough estimates, but hopefully give you the idea.
 
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