$10 NLHE 6-max: KK vs flop raise

fletchdad

fletchdad

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29/23 180 hands.. 9% 3bet, but too small sample to make anything out of that

Party Poker - $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Holdem (5 players)
Party Poker Hand Converter Tool from CardsChat.com

SB: $5.05
BB: $16.23
UTG: $9.55
CO Hero: $10.78
BTN: $15.25

Pre-flop: ($0.15) Hero is CO and dealt :kc4: :kh4:
UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.28, BTN calls $0.28, SB folds, BB calls $0.18

Flop: ($0.89) :3d4: :5d4: :2h4: (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.89, BTN calls $0.89, BB raises to $2.67, Hero?? [
 
JOEBOB69

JOEBOB69

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Have you seen how this player plays draw.Passive argo etc.?With out that info i fold.
 
brank

brank

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180 hands and no reads?

And thats deff enough hands to start making assumptions on their stats.

Since this guy is check/raising not only you but another caller to your c bet and the raise is soooo "call me please" size I think I fold. I dont know if it falls exactly into a BA/WB situation but thats what it feels like.
 
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c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Against a 29/23 I just get it in here, but folding isn't horrible.
 
Jurn8

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180 hands and no reads?

And thats deff enough hands to start making assumptions on their stats.

Since this guy is check/raising not only you but another caller to your c bet and the raise is soooo "call me please" size I think I fold. I dont know if it falls exactly into a BA/WB situation but thats what it feels like.

this so I make a tight fold, whats his agg fact?
 
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BlueNowhere

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Think he plays overpairs and draws same way so just get it in and expect to see a fold about 50% of the time.
 
H

Humps

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I think I would be calling here. He is ruining his own pot odds for a draw and that flop aren't within his range for 2 pair. A4, maybe as 23 PFR is not too tight. Yeah I'm in and praying to see no more diamonds.
 
Z

ZNT746

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I don't understand the pot bet on the flop. It is somewhat of a WA/WB situation I would just try to keep the pot small and watch out for straight cards and diamonds. At that level it's usually somewhat easy to tell when someone hits their drawing hand, and most aren't capable of making huge bluffs on wet boards. With KK there I bet small, under half the pot that way if someone does take an extremely strong line like the villain did, it's easier to get away from your hand. Also that leaves the option for people to call off with drawing hands and bluff the river when they miss. I don't think many people are going to raise a small bet with their draws but when you put $0.89 in there and there's a call that gives the villain tons of fold equity and adds draws and even stone cold bluffs to his range. In this situation though it looks like a set or a straight and I think folding is the right move, but next time bet less on the flop, or even check.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

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I think I would be calling here. He is ruining his own pot odds for a draw and that flop aren't within his range for 2 pair. A4, maybe as 23 PFR is not too tight. Yeah I'm in and praying to see no more diamonds.

Calling seems icky to me because there are so many cards that can come which will cause us to second-guess the strength of our hand - so much so that I don't think having position is enough of an advantage here to justify calling and trying to use positional advantage as opposed to just getting it in or folding on the flop.

Since this guy is check/raising not only you but another caller to your c bet and the raise is soooo "call me please" size I think I fold. I dont know if it falls exactly into a BA/WB situation but thats what it feels like.

I don't really think the raise size is indicative of wanting a call or not - it seems fairly standard to me. It's not BA/WB because mid PPs are definitely in BB's range here, as is the (albeit small) possibility that he's being cute and trying to squeeze with air.

Basically jam > fold > call.

It is somewhat of a WA/WB situation

It's not this either. :p

BB's range is something like 66-99 (WA), sets (WB), some sort of draw (BA), A4 (WB), with a small chance of total air (WA)
 
H

Humps

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Basically jam > fold > call.
BB's range is something like 66-99 (WA), sets (WB), some sort of draw (BA), A4 (WB), with a small chance of total air (WA)

What is jam? Reraise? What is BA? I couldn't spot them in the Lingo thread.
 
H

Humps

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haha sorry Bg, that wasn't clear. I was wondering if jam was another word for reraise I wasn't wondering what a reraise was. Thanks for your help guys.
 
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Calling is the worst thing you could do. You dont extract any value and give odds to the BTN if he is on a draw.

You likely have the best hand for now. Push the pot and win a mid size pot or get called and as long as an A, 4, and 6 should expect to win a big pot at showdown.
 
ChuckTs

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It's not BA/WB because mid PPs are definitely in BB's range here, as is the (albeit small) possibility that he's being cute and trying to squeeze with air.

Yeah...this is closer to a ba/wb spot if villain is competent; he shouldn't be raising any overpairs other than QQ+ or maybe just KK+, the remainder of his range being strong draws and made hands that beat overpairs (if he's aggro, the occasional bluff/backdoor draw too).

That said I have no idea if villain raises TT and stacks here, which is kind of the defining quality in villain which will make my decision as to whether or not to stack this.

Vs someone bad (read: raises all overpairs, some draws), snap get it in.

Vs a competant reg, barf, check stats/history as quickly as possible with a barf-covered keyboard and play accordingly.
 
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PotluckXXI

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Reminds me of Baudib1's thread on 22 vs AA, he's screaming set, smooth called pre-flop then checked raised to push off drawing hands to skew the odds. He checks the flop with intention of re-raising believing these cards are well below anyone's ranges, and over pairs or AK hands will bet into the pot so he wants to get 2 bets instead of one. Now he has the raise and takes down the pot with the over bet to scare off the drawing hands.
 
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baudib1

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I'd probably call here.

Folding seems OK but I'd probably never do it. Shoving seems meh unless he stacks overpairs.

He's going to have a lot of draws and some air because it's hard for us to be really excited about 1-pair hands. His action on the turn is going to tell the whole story, so I'd like to get there.
 
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