$10 NLHE 6-max: JJ hard to play after flop

Z

zdm

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I find JJ TT hard to play after flop especially when 3bet preflop

Fisrt hand
villian 18/15 flopAf 6.0



Hero (SB): $10 (100 bb)
BB: $10.69 (106.9 bb)
MP: $16.85 (168.5 bb)
CO: $14.09 (140.9 bb)
BTN: $19.55 (195.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Js Jd
MP raises to $0.40, 2 folds, Hero raises to $1, BB folds, MP raises to $2.60, Hero calls $1.60

Flop: ($5.30) 8d 9h 4h (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $3.20, Hero folds


another one villian 23/18 turnAF6.0


SB: $12.71 (127.1 bb)
BB: $10 (100 bb)
UTG: $13.75 (137.5 bb)
MP: $7.89 (78.9 bb)
Hero (CO): $10.91 (109.1 bb)
BTN: $10.55 (105.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Jh Jd
UTG folds, MP calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.30, BTN calls $0.30, 2 folds, MP calls $0.20

Flop: ($1.05) 7c 6h 3d (3 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $0.66, BTN calls $0.66, MP folds

Turn: ($2.37) Qc (2 players)
Hero bets $1.13, BTN raises to $3.10, Hero folds


Is that ok to just let it go.
 
Figaroo2

Figaroo2

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1st hand your 3bet is a lot smaller than most regs would make it oop. Id make it 1.40-1.60 or just call. We have talked about JJ in this spot a lot this year.
JJ has better equity just calling because you keep in all his smaller pairs that you dominate. If you 3 bet and get called or 4bet then the hands that do so usually have a lot of high cards that can easily outflop you and the villian tends to let go of the smaller pairs
Personally against tightish regs i prefer to flat JJ and TT as if I 3 bet them and get 4bet its a waste of good equity to 3 bet fold when you still might be ahead of AK, but are really difficult to play when any overcards arrive. There just isnt any easy way to play JJ.
The small 4 bet and high aggression levels of this reg would make it difficult for me to let this hand go with just undercards on the flop. 16 combos of AK and 18 combos of AA KK QQ mean you are ahead nearly half the time here and that doesnt include any AQ AJ & his 4 bet bluffing hands that you really crush. its very player dependent as to whether to fold or shove here.
 
John A

John A

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Figaroo2 said:
1st hand your 3bet is a lot smaller than most regs would make it oop. Id make it 1.40-1.60 or just call. We have talked about JJ in this spot a lot this year.
JJ has better equity just calling because you keep in all his smaller pairs that you dominate. If you 3 bet and get called or 4bet then the hands that do so usually have a lot of high cards that can easily outflop you and the villian tends to let go of the smaller pairs
Personally against tightish regs i prefer to flat JJ and TT as if I 3 bet them and get 4bet its a waste of good equity to 3 bet fold when you still might be ahead of AK, but are really difficult to play when any overcards arrive. There just isnt any easy way to play JJ.
The small 4 bet and high aggression levels of this reg would make it difficult for me to let this hand go with just undercards on the flop. 16 combos of AK and 18 combos of AA KK QQ mean you are ahead nearly half the time here and that doesnt include any AQ AJ & his 4 bet bluffing hands that you really crush. its very player dependent as to whether to fold or shove here.
Click to expand...

Just wanted to give you props Fig that your analysis is getting so much better. Good work man, I know you've been putting in a lot of time.
 
H

hffjd2000

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The thing here is, you are the aggressor to begin with but would fade if someone fights back at the end.

JJ and TT looks strong preflop but change things postflop. I too have a hard time playing those hands.
 
Z

zdm

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3bet 10bb is very standard. I do not want to change ip or oop, since I do not think I am good at explore the bet size . Most of time it is enough to put the pressure on other people.
Buy I really need to consider flat call with tt and jj, maybe I am woried too much about overcard afterflop. from now on I need to find a way play against overcard later.

AS for shoving the turn, I know it is a good weapon. But I feel I am a little spew as I lost a lot before. I am trying to be more tight now.
But here it maybe a good chance to shove.
Thank you for your advice.

Figaroo2 said:
1st hand your 3bet is a lot smaller than most regs would make it oop. Id make it 1.40-1.60 or just call. We have talked about JJ in this spot a lot this year.
JJ has better equity just calling because you keep in all his smaller pairs that you dominate. If you 3 bet and get called or 4bet then the hands that do so usually have a lot of high cards that can easily outflop you and the villian tends to let go of the smaller pairs
Personally against tightish regs i prefer to flat JJ and TT as if I 3 bet them and get 4bet its a waste of good equity to 3 bet fold when you still might be ahead of AK, but are really difficult to play when any overcards arrive. There just isnt any easy way to play JJ.
The small 4 bet and high aggression levels of this reg would make it difficult for me to let this hand go with just undercards on the flop. 16 combos of AK and 18 combos of AA KK QQ mean you are ahead nearly half the time here and that doesnt include any AQ AJ & his 4 bet bluffing hands that you really crush. its very player dependent as to whether to fold or shove here.
Click to expand...
 
Seraphim

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Why are we flatting a 4bet pre, if we're going to fold pretty much the best flop for us? 3Bet sizing is also way too small.
 
M

matiusaa

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I also like flat calling JJ preflop. Villian is very aggressive on the flop, so even if one overcard comes, villian will bet either he has it or not, so I wouldn't be afraid if a Q or K comes on the flop. If it is an ace then yes I would be more scared because there are more Ax in his range. If you 3bet call 4 bet oop, why did you call if you are going to fold on the bests flops? Try to think how you are going to play postflop before making the decition preflop, it helps you to reduce the number and magnitude of mistakes. If you call villian will have lots of hands you are beating preflop. The thing is that villian is going to be tight in MP. I think that if villian were opening from CO this would be a standard 3bet, because his range would be much wider, but it still depends on each villian the way you should play. The major leak I see is that you don't think how you are going to play your hand before playing it.
 
suby_rafael

suby_rafael

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I would not 3bet this pre flop because i am not happy to call a 4bet. Jacks often confuse people and put em on tilt because it can be so difficult making the right decision.

Jacks cannot handle too much aggression pre flop plus post flop they have to deal with so many difficult scenarios - any over card can be a scare card or a wet board. I agree with what figaroo2 says that we have to play it in different styles against different players to give ourselves the best chance.:toilet:
 
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