$10 NLHE 6-max: Jacks in trouble

bgomez89

bgomez89

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$10 NL HE 6-max: Jacks in trouble

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($9.15)
Hero (Button) ($16.35)
SB ($31.60)
BB ($13.85)
UTG ($1.80)
MP ($10.30)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J
club.gif
, J
heart.gif

UTG calls $0.10, MP bets $0.50, 1 fold, Hero raises to $1.50, 3 folds, MP raises to $5, Hero calls $3.50

Flop: ($10.25) A
club.gif
, 6
diamond.gif
, 8
club.gif
(2 players)
MP bets $5.30 (All-In), Hero ????



So where did I screw up and what do i do here? No reads on villian.
 
Sean Pilgrim

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There's 1800 ways to play pocket jacks and they're all wrong. He's obviously strong. But I doubt he has AA in his hand. That much aggression should hint to a mid to high PP, also depending on villains stats.

But regardless, he raised 5xBB, you re-raised him to 15xBB and he reraised you yet again up to 55xBB(math right?)... He's definately strong, the JJ shouldn't have been played so aggressively. I honestly don't think you can make this call without villains stats
 
polakpoker4

polakpoker4

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At 10nl, a 4bet like that is always AA or KK. If you're calling a 50BB 4bet pre you might as well get it in preflop. You've basically got half your stack committed here, you're going to see a bad flop pretty often so theres no point in just calling the 4bet.

As played, a fold for sure cause you dont beat anything on that board that 4bets preflop.
 
S93

S93

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Fold or stack prf.
For the love of god what is the reasoning behind commiting half effective stacks prf?

Either we half vilains prf 4bet range beat(he is maniac and stack 88-TT,AJ-AK,KQ prf) or if he is like most 10nl players he has us crushed and we have to fold the 4bet.
Flatting prf puts in crappy spot where villain is likly only to stack of postflop when he has us beat but check/folds the flop when his AK misses or there come overs to his TT or w/e.

Just ship it in prf or fold.


As played, fold, we beat nothing but pure bluffs and there isnt gonna be alot of thouse in his range in a 4bet pot.
 
WVHillbilly

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Flatting his PFR, shoving over his 4bet, or folding to his 4bet are all SO much better than calling his 4bet.

Just call the flop shove. You're probably not good 1/3 of the time but think of it as punishment for being so stupid preflop. My guess is he's "bluffing" the flop with KK but you're always crushed here.
 
Lazmansa

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Your re-raise preflop to $1.50 was your first mistake .You played them way to aggressive here,u just want to call his raise to $.50 with JJ.have a look at the flop with out commiting to much cash.in this case you missed and it would have been easy to fold with just $.50 that u comitted in the pot.

You are beat here and the right play would be to fold.

Lazmansa:D
 
S93

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Your re-raise preflop to $1.50 was your first mistake .You played them way to aggressive here,u just want to call his raise to $.50 with JJ.have a look at the flop with out commiting to much cash.in this case you missed and it would have been easy to fold with just $.50 that u comitted in the pot.

You are beat here and the right play would be to fold.

Lazmansa:D
I disagree. 3betting here is fine imo.
At 10NL alot of people are calling 3bets way to wide and then playing fit and fold postflop so 3betting jacks is pretty standard, especialy at 6max.
But there is a HUGE difrence in what people will call a 3bet with(88,AJ,KT and other random junk) and what they 4bet with.
 
V

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I'm with Lazmansa here, flat call the raise. You have no read on villian.
 
B

baudib1

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3-betting JJ is fine and maybe even standard. It's a cheap way to find out where you are, instead of getting stacked by KK on a 7 4 2 board. Once they 4-bet small you are positively destroyed by even a loose player's range.
 
S93

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3-betting JJ is fine and maybe even standard. It's a cheap way to find out where you are, instead of getting stacked by KK on a 7 4 2 board. Once they 4-bet small you are positively destroyed by even a loose player's range.
at 10NL 6max i think 3beting stuff like TT and AQ could be considered standard(against unknowns,tag fish,stations. not nits obvs) since people will call 3bets so ridic wide.

Dont understand why any one doesnt like 3betting here.
Where gonna be in postion for the rest of the hand and one of the biggest mistakes micro players like to is to call 3bets OOP with all sorts of trash, so ffs let them make that mistake.
 
WVHillbilly

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I think 3betting is fine, hell I think just about anything other than flatting the 4bet is fine preflop.
 
Stu_Ungar

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I 3-bet fold against a normal opponent. At these stakes, people just do not 4-bet light often enough for you to need to make any adjustment. With JJ you are a slight favourite to AK (which he will 4-bet) and a huge dog to AA-KK (maybe QQ) what else are you putting in his 4-bet range? and what information do you have on him to support these extra hands?
 
bgomez89

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I 3-bet fold against a normal opponent. At these stakes, people just do not 4-bet light often enough for you to need to make any adjustment. With JJ you are a slight favourite to AK (which he will 4-bet) and a huge dog to AA-KK (maybe QQ) what else are you putting in his 4-bet range? and what information do you have on him to support these extra hands?

I didn't and I was donking away my chips because I couldn't let go of JJ(preflop at least). I'm just so used to playing with people raising with trash at 10nl that I convince myself that maybe he's 4betting with AK/AQ TT etc and if he does have AA/KK/QQ maybe i'll hit a set. It's a leak for me. Thanks for all the input guys, i folded the flop but should've folded to that damn 4bet
 
Stu_Ungar

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I didn't and I was donking away my chips because I couldn't let go of JJ(preflop at least). I'm just so used to playing with people raising with trash at 10nl that I convince myself that maybe he's 4betting with AK/AQ TT etc and if he does have AA/KK/QQ maybe i'll hit a set. It's a leak for me. Thanks for all the input guys, i folded the flop but should've folded to that damn 4bet

You cannot profitably setmine in 3-bet pots with less than about 150-200bb stacks. So 100bb deep, setmining in 3-bet pots is a HUGE leak.

Do you have HEM or PT3 because I think you will see that the general 4-bet stat is too small to often include the hands that you hoped he was playing. I'm sure once in a while you are being 4-bet by 77 or j4o but its not happening enough that you can PROFITABLY do anything other than fold because 99% of the time you are against { JJ+ AK } so folding is the most profitable play.
 
LuckyChippy

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I'm sure you've now learned as I have recently. Don't call 4-bets pre-flop and unless he's a mong fold JJ to a 4-bet. You will be berated and rightly. After you call it's a fold everytime, he either has AA/KK/QQ/AK and you're beat.
 
Deco

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Fold to the 4bet.
As sindri said the 3bet is fine for value as 10NL people will call with all sorts of shite.
 
bgomez89

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Fold to the 4bet.
As sindri said the 3bet is fine for value as 10NL people will call with all sorts of shite.

so people at higher stakes rarely 3bet jacks?
 
Deco

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so people at higher stakes rarely 3bet jacks?

No.

  • There are fish at high stakes as well
  • Button vs blinds people will call for the sake of taking the pot down postflop
  • When the 3bet/4bet dynamic is aggressive enough Jacks are a fine stacking off hand (Definitly not the case here)
 
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