$10 NLHE 6-max: Hero call with Ace high

6

6bet me

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10NL 6-max zoom on pokerstars. Villain is unknown.

BTN: $46.30
Hero (SB): $30.18
BB: $8.51
UTG: $10.00
MP: $10.00
CO: $10.00

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is SB with A:spade: K:spade:
2 folds, CO raises to $0.25, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.90, 1 fold, CO calls $0.65

Flop: ($1.90) 4:diamond: 5:spade: 9:diamond: (2 players)
Hero bets $1.40, CO calls $1.40

Turn: ($4.70) 5:heart: (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks

River: ($4.70) 3:heart: (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $7.70 all in, Hero calls $7.70

What do you think about the way hero played this hand? I just couldn't understand why villain would be checking the turn and then overbetting the river, unless he had a busted flush draw.
 
TimovieMan

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55 making it look like he's bluffing to get you to call light.

If he's willing to overbet that much, then frankly, he can have it.
 
IPlay

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Probably not even cbetting this flop. So many hands for villain to float us with and even if we turn a b/d flush draw the pot is so bloated it is probably going to cost us 100bbs to try and hit it.

Just fold this river man, sure, some flush draws missed but damn. This is going to be 76 or a boat so often.
 
6

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Probably not even cbetting this flop. So many hands for villain to float us with and even if we turn a b/d flush draw the pot is so bloated it is probably going to cost us 100bbs to try and hit it.

Just fold this river man, sure, some flush draws missed but damn. This is going to be 76 or a boat so often.

What is the alternative to Cbetting the flop? Check/call or check/fold? And doesn't this make me really exploitable if I'm Cbetting all my overpairs and checking all my overcards?

The villain ended up showing up with 55 (quads). My initial reaction was "I knew I should have folded the river!", but I thought I'd get some different opinions on this from people who haven't seen the results, in case it was an okay hero call that just happened to run into the nuts.
 
Cherubael

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I guess they don't call it a hero call for nothing
 
B

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I don't think any bluffs would over shove like that unless you have a read on this guy. He would've been better off to make his bluffs smaller size. Probably up against a big hand full houses straight quads. Fold
 
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We have to remember at this level the balance of bluffs to valve on the river is far greater than the required 33/66 in (favor of value) more like 10/90.
So what do you call 3 bet to your open in the C/O but dont 4 bet? i would say strong broadways, A2 - A5s and 44+.
with this range distribution we are loosing a lot, and with the turn check, i would do this with pocket 8s and 7 or a pair with the suited A.
So in conclusion, on the river, take a deep breath and really see what hands he bluffs with and there isnt v many - fold.
 
IPlay

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What is the alternative to Cbetting the flop? Check/call or check/fold? And doesn't this make me really exploitable if I'm Cbetting all my overpairs and checking all my overcards?

The villain ended up showing up with 55 (quads). My initial reaction was "I knew I should have folded the river!", but I thought I'd get some different opinions on this from people who haven't seen the results, in case it was an okay hero call that just happened to run into the nuts.

Doesn't really make us exploitable to give us on this particular flop with AK. Checking every whiffed flop would make us exploitable. Don't think you have to Cbet AK 100% of the time and you can probably x/call or fold since we have the bdfd but I probably x/fold this flop.

You are going to be lighting money on fire making 80bb hero calls with A high and it's going to make moving up very tough
 
TimovieMan

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Side question, but why do you continue playing once your stack goes beyond 300BB?

I'd get continuing on a regular table as long as the table fish are present, but in Zoom? I'd be getting out and starting with 100BB again every time I reach 300BB+. Not too comfortable playing that deep.
 
6

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Side question, but why do you continue playing once your stack goes beyond 300BB?

I'd get continuing on a regular table as long as the table fish are present, but in Zoom? I'd be getting out and starting with 100BB again every time I reach 300BB+. Not too comfortable playing that deep.

I like playing deep-stacked. There are a lot of calling stations at zoom and it really helps to be 300bb deep with a set against a player that can't fold top pair. If you believe you have an edge over the average player in that pool, then it is beneficial to play deep-stacked against them to maximise your win rate.

Doesn't really make us exploitable to give us on this particular flop with AK. Checking every whiffed flop would make us exploitable. Don't think you have to Cbet AK 100% of the time and you can probably x/call or fold since we have the bdfd but I probably x/fold this flop.

You are going to be lighting money on fire making 80bb hero calls with A high and it's going to make moving up very tough

I agree with the second paragraph (about lighting money on fire by hero calling too much) but I kind of disagree with the first paragraph. Part of GTO is giving us a balanced range on every board texture for every action we make. For every board texture, we should have a balanced checking range and a balanced betting range. If there is a particular board texture where our checking range is unbalanced (eg. we fold after checking every time on a particular board texture), then that makes us exploitable, since the villain can bet that board texture with 100% of his range after we check to him, knowing that we're unbalanced and knowing that he can get folds a huge portion of the time.

Now, a mistake I see a lot of players make, particularly at the micro/small stakes, is that their checking range on wet boards is unbalanced. Everytime a player checks a wet board, they tend to check/fold. This is why I advocate for occassionally checking strong hands on wet boards (such as check-raising a set instead of Cbetting), as well as betting wet boards with bluffs every now and again. I know that in general, you should be more inclined to Cbet bluff on a dry flop rather than a wet flop, since your fold equity is higher, but I do think that for the sake of balance, it is sometimes necessary to Cbet bluff wet boards as well as check-call or check-raise hands on wet boards rather than doing nothing but Cbetting and check/folding on wet boards.
 
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GTO also states that every time we check the river, effectively we lose. You would have been better off betting the river here. You could choose to check the turn as you did making this a 2 street value hand but betting the turn wouldn't have been bad here either.

Again, head cold so don't take my word 100%.
 
IPlay

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Firstly, I think swaying away from GTO and making exploitable plays at the micros is fine. People shouldn't exploit you for not playing GTO very often.

Also, a balanced range isn't cbetting every single hand in 3 bet pots. Just because you x/fold or x/call doesn't mean you are unbalanced. To make up for x/folding AK on this flop we can x/call our PP of 77-99 and even x/raise 99, QQ+.

Don't use balance as a reason to make -EV plays at the micros. At mid/high stakes you may have to make a -EV play to benefit the +EV of your ENTIRE range in a certain spot but this is not necessary at the micros and will probably cost you money.
 
c9h13no3

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So much is bad about this hand, but also: flush draws are much smaller portions of your opponent's range in 3-bet pots. So0o0oted trash usually finds a fold against a 3bet
 
c9h13no3

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55 making it look like he's bluffing to get you to call light.

If he's willing to overbet that much, then frankly, he can have it.

Tim is on a hand guessing heater.
 
Delvuter

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What we have here is someone getting excited about their AK suited, which is something to get excited about, but all it is is a premium suited connector so we have to play it as such. Yeah, 3-bet pre, but know to be cautious the second he calls us. Then the flop happens and it’s crap for us. All we wanted was a flush draw or a straight draw and none of those things happened. Not only did those things not happen, but it may have gave someone else a flush or straight draw or both, not to mention a set. I am not c-betting here, I am slowing down and hoping to get free cards and if I don’t I am folding my crappy hand. The turn pairs the board which is never something we want, now somebodies set just turned into a full boat or their A5 suited made them a set. Good check on the turn. I don’t even know what to say about your river call. That is a clear fold.
 
MattRyder

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Opening with AK from SB is a semi-bluff/draw. C-betting a missed flop from SB w/ AK high is still a semi/pure bluff/draw. After that it's pure gravy for the other guy. A checked-turn (after a failed c-bet by hero on the flop) followed by a push on the river is almost textbook at the micro-level. In the end Ace-high is rarely a monster.
 
TimovieMan

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I am not c-betting here, I am slowing down and hoping to get free cards and if I don’t I am folding my crappy hand.
If you're folding every pair, even top pair, top kicker, to aggression all the time, then I would be bluffing you with ATC every single time and make a killing. I agree with folding here, but you seem to advocate folding everything lower than two-pair in every thread you post in...
 
Delvuter

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Where is the pair? This is A high. I try to maintain a 7% 3-bet rate, you won't be bluffing me to much.
 
Trabendo_daze

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Fold river man. He just has too many value hands and the price is awful
 
TimovieMan

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Where is the pair? This is A high. I try to maintain a 7% 3-bet rate, you won't be bluffing me to much.
It's AK, which is just under 22. It's the nut no-pair, and a perfect bluff-catcher. But I wasn't talking about this hand specifically, but your general advice in threads you post in.
 
Delvuter

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Everybody else’s advice is “Shove!” I get frustrated on here because we are supposed to be using this as a learning tool, if we default to telling people at $.01/.02 limits, “Oh at this level shove cause blah, blah, blah,” we are doing them a disservice. Tell them how to play according to good theory. Error on the side of teaching them standard theory at a higher level instead of erring on the side of teaching them how to play against unthinking players. Do the former and they will get the ladder. Do just the ladder and you are raising fish.
 
TimovieMan

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By explaining the difference between NL2 and higher stakes, we're not only teaching them the most profitable way to beat the stakes they're at, but we're also explaining how that changes once you move up.
That's imo a lot better than teaching them standard theory at a level they're not at.
 
IPlay

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I can no longer tell if Devulter is a troll or not
 
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