$10 NLHE 6-max: Good Bluff?

freddydr87

freddydr87

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There are 3 keys in this hand i wanth everyone telling me their opinion,so we can learn from each other
1- I guess flop and turn every one bets, standart board for Cbeting with 80% to 100% off OPR rangue, turn complite flush and i get the Tpair,so still have value and im bloquing the nuts.
The question is river, the value bloquing is good? i still can get paid by worse hans like some Qx, i dont thing doubles or sets will raise here.
2- When he raises me in the river he is telling me: i have the nuts or nothing, so im bloquing the nuts so i have a very good bluffcatcher.
3- Converting my hand into bluff was good? i mean i have a very strong bluffcatcher so calling will be good, but also i have the best bluff possivel in this spot. imagine i have flush here, i bet 1/3 river to stract value from medium hands and to get bluffed,so i have to valance this line with some 3bet bluff.
Wath do you thing it was good stay GTO and valance my 3bet nuts river converting a very good bluffcatcher into a bluff?https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/6qvQ8ZU
 
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gustav197poker

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When hero polarizes his range on the turn he is already compensated, so a third barrel doesn't add any additional value. From this perspective, hero can check the river, to preserve natural bluffs in rank V. For example: J-9; 8-7; 8-9; 7-9; K-9; K-J. If we just keep betting, we are blocking the bluffs that V might have in his range. I honestly don't think any player plays GTO in NL10, but the overall concept of balance is important.
In this case you have a good bluff catcher and in the river x / c line for hero is the most balanced path possible for NL10.
In addition, to increasing the villain's bet on the river we must have very specific readings (based on samples from thousands of hands) that make us think that this guy could be playing very broad and we expect a high fold equity from him. But this is unlikely in micro stakes, as villains often bet on value on the river. Specifically this increase was too large (5.3X), which is very close to a value bet.
Greetings.
 
freddydr87

freddydr87

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When hero polarizes his range on the turn he is already compensated, so a third barrel doesn't add any additional value. From this perspective, hero can check the river, to preserve natural bluffs in rank V. For example: J-9; 8-7; 8-9; 7-9; K-9; K-J. If we just keep betting, we are blocking the bluffs that V might have in his range. I honestly don't think any player plays GTO in NL10, but the overall concept of balance is important.
In this case you have a good bluff catcher and in the river x / c line for hero is the most balanced path possible for NL10.
In addition, to increasing the villain's bet on the river we must have very specific readings (based on samples from thousands of hands) that make us think that this guy could be playing very broad and we expect a high fold equity from him. But this is unlikely in micro stakes, as villains often bet on value on the river. Specifically this increase was too large (5.3X), which is very close to a value bet.
Greetings.
Thanks for the coment very good perspective
 
ammje

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I did not understand why you turned your hand into a bluff? I think the villain tried to bluff the river because of your small river bet.

I do not play cash, but for me it is easy to call in that hand, and I do not understand why turn it into a bluff, because they will only pay you hands that win you.

Now if you tell me that you think that the villain can have T9 or 88, 33, and you can make those hands folde, there would make a little sense.
 
Aballinamion

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There are 3 keys in this hand i wanth everyone telling me their opinion,so we can learn from each other
1- I guess flop and turn every one bets, standart board for Cbeting with 80% to 100% off OPR rangue, turn complite flush and i get the Tpair,so still have value and im bloquing the nuts.
The question is river, the value bloquing is good? i still can get paid by worse hans like some Qx, i dont thing doubles or sets will raise here.
2- When he raises me in the river he is telling me: i have the nuts or nothing, so im bloquing the nuts so i have a very good bluffcatcher.
3- Converting my hand into bluff was good? i mean i have a very strong bluffcatcher so calling will be good, but also i have the best bluff possivel in this spot. imagine i have flush here, i bet 1/3 river to stract value from medium hands and to get bluffed,so i have to valance this line with some 3bet bluff.
Wath do you thing it was good stay GTO and valance my 3bet nuts river converting a very good bluffcatcher into a bluff?https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/6qvQ8ZU

Hi there dear mate, good to see you are into cash tables! :D

Well, first thing we have to consider is that we are opening many hands from the CO, varying from 15% to 30% hands/range or even more depending on the table/player/perceived range, etc.
When BTN calls, it also has a pretty fair range, also could be something between 20% and 40%, give or take.

One thing I have already discussed here with other players is the modern tendency for opening raises to be smaller, specially when we are in position, like Hero/You.
Because we are opening too many hands from these positions (CO and BTN), it is wise to choose a sizing that can fit for all of our range, and in the long run 3 blinds is a huge investment, far superior than investing just 2.5 blinds: consider that for every single hand you open IP with a sizing of 2.5 blinds (x), you are saving 0.5 blinds, so for every 200 hundred hands played IP we are saving 100 blinds, which is something to be looking for.

The postflop is a matter of the situation, but usually we can be c-betting or checking this flop in the same ratio (50% checking, 50% c-betting), and the size you used is perfect, because we can have many hands here and air and draws and the sizing takes into account all of these possibilities.
When BTN calls, it could have did it with Jx, 8x, even some 3x, although we are blocking A3hh, the flush draws and straight draws.

The Turn is good for both ranges, both players can have now hands like Q8, J8, Qx, Jx and the draws, and once we are blocking the flush nuts. OTT we can use many sizings, depending on what you want to do OTR: do you want to bet little OTT to put a bomb OTR?
Do you want to bet heavy OTT to shove all-in on many rivers? Well, considering we are blocking the nut flush, I would personally go for polarization here, charging specially from Two Pair, Sets and another Flushes or Flush Draws, and I would go for 100% pot or even more to put Villain all-in in almost 100% of rivers.
By betting so small we give the chance for Villain to realize its equity for a cheap price OTR, and this is not so good for us.

I don't understand your bet sizing OTR. When you bet so small a sizing like this it seems that either you have the flush and wants to be paid ASAP or that you have some strong second hand such as TPTK, Two Pair or Sets and got scared of the flush but even so wanted to extract thin value from worst hands OTR: by betting so little Villain can easily call with a lot of hands that have us beat such as lower flushes, Two Pair and Sets, but Villain elects to re-raise, where it shouldn't be raising, basically, never.
Villain should never be raising here because it is trying to represent the nut flush on which we are blocking.
I am only putting up a shove right here if I know my opponent is a reasonable, decent player, at least. Many regulars are not folding lower flushes or sets in situations like this so when we do go all-in with TPTK + Missed FD, it is awesome, good and fine, but this is move that relies entirely on who you are playing with.

Coming back to the subject I started on the turn, this is why we should go for heavier bets OTT if our plan is to go all-in on many rivers, because for the times we really do own the nut flush, or hit the nut flush OTR, it would be impossible for Villain to fold the vast majority of its range, because of the SPR: when we bet more OTT we commit both ourselves and Villain much more than simplying going for a small bet:
A smart player would be calling you down 100% of times, OTR, even with KQ for example, when you go for such lower bets OTT and OTR. By doing this you are giving free information for experient players, which was not the case: which hands raise OTR and fold to a push??? Why Villain raised anyway if it believed it had the best holding? ;) And believe me, Villain would have much more QJ, J8, Q8, 86, 33 and 66 than us/Hero, so..:evil:

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa
 
freddydr87

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I did not understand why you turned your hand into a bluff? I think the villain tried to bluff the river because of your small river bet.

I do not play cash, but for me it is easy to call in that hand, and I do not understand why turn it into a bluff, because they will only pay you hands that win you.

Now if you tell me that you think that the villain can have T9 or 88, 33, and you can make those hands folde, there would make a little sense.
You need to turn it into a bluff because imagini you have the nuts(Ax off hearts) you will raise him in the river right? so you will only do it for value? you need to valance that muve with bluffes iff not u are playing face up when you 3bet river
 
Dkerridge14

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Jamming there isn’t ever really getting value from enough hands. A specially if it is a fish. They call down with 2 pair or better. I see no value in a shove unless you had a very specific read on villain
 
freddydr87

freddydr87

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Hi there dear mate, good to see you are into cash tables! :D

Well, first thing we have to consider is that we are opening many hands from the CO, varying from 15% to 30% hands/range or even more depending on the table/player/perceived range, etc.
When BTN calls, it also has a pretty fair range, also could be something between 20% and 40%, give or take.

One thing I have already discussed here with other players is the modern tendency for opening raises to be smaller, specially when we are in position, like Hero/You.
Because we are opening too many hands from these positions (CO and BTN), it is wise to choose a sizing that can fit for all of our range, and in the long run 3 blinds is a huge investment, far superior than investing just 2.5 blinds: consider that for every single hand you open IP with a sizing of 2.5 blinds (x), you are saving 0.5 blinds, so for every 200 hundred hands played IP we are saving 100 blinds, which is something to be looking for.

That more use in High stakes were the rake is lower,here u have to strait max from ur hand for compensating the rake.
But i do 2,5 only in BTN because is were you face more 3bets.

The postflop is a matter of the situation, but usually we can be c-betting or checking this flop in the same ratio (50% checking, 50% c-betting), and the size you used is perfect, because we can have many hands here and air and draws and the sizing takes into account all of these possibilities.
When BTN calls, it could have did it with Jx, 8x, even some 3x, although we are blocking A3hh, the flush draws and straight draws.

The Turn is good for both ranges, both players can have now hands like Q8, J8, Qx, Jx and the draws, and once we are blocking the flush nuts. OTT we can use many sizings, depending on what you want to do OTR: do you want to bet little OTT to put a bomb OTR?
Do you want to bet heavy OTT to shove all-in on many rivers? Well, considering we are blocking the nut flush, I would personally go for polarization here, charging specially from Two Pair, Sets and another Flushes or Flush Draws, and I would go for 100% pot or even more to put Villain all-in in almost 100% of rivers.
By betting so small we give the chance for Villain to realize its equity for a cheap price OTR, and this is not so good for us.

I don't understand your bet sizing OTR. When you bet so small a sizing like this it seems that either you have the flush and wants to be paid ASAP or that you have some strong second hand such as TPTK, Two Pair or Sets and got scared of the flush but even so wanted to extract thin value from worst hands OTR: by betting so little Villain can easily call with a lot of hands that have us beat such as lower flushes, Two Pair and Sets, but Villain elects to re-raise, where it shouldn't be raising, basically, never.

That zizing is a mater off strategie(the one i made), but the idea is to, is i bet big i wonth get value from bluffes or medium hands,only call the stronguest hands off his rangue, so i dont wath to let him check back with a medium hand, basically i let him bluff me and i guet value from weeker hands.


Villain should never be raising here because it is trying to represent the nut flush on which we are blocking.
I am only putting up a shove right here if I know my opponent is a reasonable, decent player, at least. Many regulars are not folding lower flushes or sets in situations like this so when we do go all-in with TPTK + Missed FD, it is awesome, good and fine, but this is move that relies entirely on who you are playing with.

Coming back to the subject I started on the turn, this is why we should go for heavier bets OTT if our plan is to go all-in on many rivers, because for the times we really do own the nut flush, or hit the nut flush OTR, it would be impossible for Villain to fold the vast majority of its range, because of the SPR: when we bet more OTT we commit both ourselves and Villain much more than simplying going for a small bet:
A smart player would be calling you down 100% of times, OTR, even with KQ for example, when you go for such lower bets OTT and OTR. By doing this you are giving free information for experient players, which was not the case: which hands raise OTR and fold to a push??? Why Villain raised anyway if it believed it had the best holding? ;) And believe me, Villain would have much more QJ, J8, Q8, 86, 33 and 66 than us/Hero, so..:evil:

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa
Thanks Carlos allwais very good analisis.
I do open 2,5 on the BTN were we face more 3bets,but this is more used(opening smaller like 2,2/2,5) in higuer stakes were the rake is cheaper and u wanth to play more hands post flop.
My bet off 1/3 pot River is a matter off straegy giving the hands i have take to the river,all my hands waths to bet small,at the end as you say i have less sets and doubles, and with this board vilain wonth raise to much with thouse hands,he will tend to call, but when i have the nuts i wanth to strat from medium hand(wish will fold is i make a pot or overpot bet) and let him bluff me,some hands will call(the ones with bloquers) and other will fold,but i will have the nuts to re raise him and also the best bluff to valance this muve.
 
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