$10 NLHE 6-max: General AK facing 3bet OOP

B

braveslice

Pull-ups!
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Total posts
1,988
Chips
0
Hello, AK facing 3bet OOP, what I’m supposed to do, feels like loss in any way I play it.

Should I shove instead of rising to about 22bb? In this hand yes, I guess, but how about generally?

My results 5NL:
C 88 times, AI adjusted -$0.10
4bet 114 times AI adjusted $2.45

My results 10NL:
C 14 times, AI adjusted -$13.46
4bet 15 times, AI adjusted -$11.33
Had I folded all I would have lost about -$10.50 in 10NL

PokerStars - $0.10 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 100 BB (VPIP: 21.05, PFR: 15.79, 3Bet Preflop: 11.11, hands: 20)
SB: 167.8 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)
BB: 104.7 BB (VPIP: 12.50, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 9)
UTG: 100 BB (VPIP: 30.00, PFR: 30.00, 3Bet Preflop: 9.09, Hands: 30)
MP: 277.1 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)
Hero (CO): 128.2 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A K

fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, BTN raises to 9 BB, fold, BB calls 8 BB, and hero is losing what ever he does
 
M

Mahsa dMo

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 27, 2017
Total posts
108
Chips
0
Is this missing some information? I'm lost. What happened after?
 
B

braveslice

Pull-ups!
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Total posts
1,988
Chips
0
Is this missing some information? I'm lost. What happened after?

Hey, that is just the last AK faces 3bet, I’m just asking what to do next. But in general I’m trying to figure if AK can be played profitable when facing a 3bet. I mean all the books say that, all the forum say that, so it should be possible right?

The hand before that AKvs3bet I 4betted it, that was easy hand because I had no hands from villain so he most likely was new to level and he got it in with JJ so there was no way to mess it up. JJ is quite bottom in AI pots what I see ever. Getting AK in vs JJ is very unprofitable it seems ->

Ev getting AK in vs JJ below (not quite sure if it’s correct but can’t be too far away)
0.46*(10.10-rake0.5) – 0.54*9.80 = -0.876
So getting it in against JJ costs me massive 8.5bb, how can that ever be profitable? Folding costs 3bb.
Btw that hand below with JJ costed me 4bb even we splitted it.

PokerStars - $0.10 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 106 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)
SB: 108.9 BB (VPIP: 36.73, PFR: 34.69, 3Bet Preflop: 17.65, Hands: 52)
BB: 112 BB (VPIP: 18.52, PFR: 14.81, 3Bet Preflop: 22.22, Hands: 27)
UTG: 103.1 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 60.00, Hands: 17)
Hero (MP): 101 BB
CO: 215.7 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K A

fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, BTN raises to 10 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 22 BB, BTN raises to 106 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 79 BB and is all-in

Flop: (203.5 BB, 2 players) 8 K 5

Turn: (203.5 BB, 2 players) 5

River: (203.5 BB, 2 players) T
Players agreed to run it twice.

Flop #2: (203.5 BB, 2 players) 6 9 9

Turn #2: (203.5 BB, 2 players) 2

River #2: (203.5 BB, 2 players) 7

Hero shows K A (Two Pair, Kings and Fives)
Board #1 (Pre 46%, Flop 96%, Turn 95%)
(One Pair, Nines)
Board #2 (Pre 42%, Flop 20%, Turn 13%)

BTN shows J J (Two Pair, Jacks and Fives)
Board #1 (Pre 54%, Flop 4%, Turn 5%)
(Two Pair, Jacks and Nines)
Board #2 (Pre 58%, Flop 80%, Turn 87%)

BTN wins 97.1 BB
Hero wins 97.2 BB
 
B

braveslice

Pull-ups!
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Total posts
1,988
Chips
0
10NL If we have 2 players 100bb, blinds 0.15, to break even with AKo we need 50.13% equity in AI spots. That means we don’t have odds against {22+, AK}, we have the correct equity only against {AQ-, KQ-} even against AKo we don’t have the odds because rake is shared.

So AK can’t be in our AI value range, it only can be in our AI bluff range against normal grinders. Problem is that I have not even ever heard about AI bluff range, even though I have done it sometimes. I do my AI bluffs only against easy targets, wouldn’t that mean hero should find the bluff spot carefully and fold mostly with AK?

Against loose for grinder AI range {TT+,AQs+,KQs,AQo+} we barely break even.

x*(10-0.5+0.15) – (1-x)*9.7 = 0 -> x= 0.5013
 
Last edited:
M

Mahsa dMo

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 27, 2017
Total posts
108
Chips
0
Hey, that is just the last AK faces 3bet, I’m just asking what to do next. But in general I’m trying to figure if AK can be played profitable when facing a 3bet. I mean all the books say that, all the forum say that, so it should be possible right?

The hand before that AKvs3bet I 4betted it, that was easy hand because I had no hands from villain so he most likely was new to level and he got it in with JJ so there was no way to mess it up. JJ is quite bottom in AI pots what I see ever. Getting AK in vs JJ is very unprofitable it seems ->

Ev getting AK in vs JJ below (not quite sure if it’s correct but can’t be too far away)
0.46*(10.10-rake0.5) – 0.54*9.80 = -0.876
So getting it in against JJ costs me massive 8.5bb, how can that ever be profitable? Folding costs 3bb.
Btw that hand below with JJ costed me 4bb even we splitted it.

PokerStars - $0.10 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 106 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)
SB: 108.9 BB (VPIP: 36.73, PFR: 34.69, 3Bet Preflop: 17.65, Hands: 52)
BB: 112 BB (VPIP: 18.52, PFR: 14.81, 3Bet Preflop: 22.22, Hands: 27)
UTG: 103.1 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 60.00, Hands: 17)
Hero (MP): 101 BB
CO: 215.7 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 1)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K A

fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, BTN raises to 10 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 22 BB, BTN raises to 106 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 79 BB and is all-in

Flop: (203.5 BB, 2 players) 8 K 5

Turn: (203.5 BB, 2 players) 5

River: (203.5 BB, 2 players) T
Players agreed to run it twice.

Flop #2: (203.5 BB, 2 players) 6 9 9

Turn #2: (203.5 BB, 2 players) 2

River #2: (203.5 BB, 2 players) 7

Hero shows K A (Two Pair, Kings and Fives)
Board #1 (Pre 46%, Flop 96%, Turn 95%)
(One Pair, Nines)
Board #2 (Pre 42%, Flop 20%, Turn 13%)

BTN shows J J (Two Pair, Jacks and Fives)
Board #1 (Pre 54%, Flop 4%, Turn 5%)
(Two Pair, Jacks and Nines)
Board #2 (Pre 58%, Flop 80%, Turn 87%)

BTN wins 97.1 BB
Hero wins 97.2 BB

Ok. What I usually do is that I decide that if I am willing to go all in against his range. If villain is a tight player, he won't have any AQ that I dominate so I just flat the his 3-bet. If I make a pair on flop or a draw or pot odds are in favor I continue.
I won't fold right away and to one bet. I most likely float. I have 6 odds against 99-QQ. That's 25% pot equity.
 
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Total posts
5,781
Chips
0
Fold to 4bet

Less likely a 4bet will be wide against an unknown. AKo oop isnt what we want to flat oop without a read.

A lil rule i have without reads is dont be the one calling shoves with ak or qq
 
B

braveslice

Pull-ups!
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Total posts
1,988
Chips
0
Thanks guys. I needed to have some steam out, you are both right. I assume I have brain fart with AK, but it opened little bit. You are right, this is just a normal hand.

So we know:
1. AK is great 4bet hand against most
2. AK when used bluff can go AI many cases having the odds
3. AK AI can be for value against wide ranges
4. There is no reason to overplay AK against tight player
5. You can even fold AK

And I actually folded AK yesterday, it was great moment because it made my decision process so much easier. Tight player opens UTG, very tight players 3bets and I fold BU with AKo. That was wrong fold though =) but SB 5betted with AA making it correct ;) Tight player called it w 99 putting SB to AK (just saying). Even wrong, it made playing more fun in situation where you can only guess. Well my AK is performing just good this year 273bb/100 AI adjusted, it was these 3bet / 4bet pots that made me steam. It might actually be good result to break even against tight 3bet ranges with AK.

That said, if you go see zoom 16NL by observing you need really play AK super agro, the 3bet and 4bet ranges are quite firework. I don’t know if they select the craziest players to observe though.
 
Top