$10 NLHE 6-max: Folding the nuts to avoid paying rake: Ax on KQJT board

6

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10NL 6-max zoom on pokerstars. Villain is unknown but presumably a thinking reg. We're both deep-stacked with effective stack sizes of $28.50 (285bb).

Hero (CO) is dealt Ad Qc
SB posts $0.05
Villain (BB) posts $0.10
2 folds
Hero (CO) raises to $0.30
2 folds
Villain (BB) calls $0.20

$0.65 in pot
Flop shows Ks Qh Tc

Villain checks
Hero checks

$0.65 in pot
Turn shows Js

Villain checks
Hero bets $0.34
Villain raises to $28.20 and is ALL-IN
Hero folds!!!!!!!!!!!

Now this might seem crazy to you, but let me explain my logic for folding: I'm pretty much 100% sure that the villain has Ax here, so I never expect to win this pot outright.
The best I can hope for is a split pot if my opponent has Ax.
The worst: I can actually lose this entire pot if my opponent has Axss and the river is another spade!

Now let's look at rake: max rake paid at 10NL is $1.50, which will be the case if I call here. The pot size that is being shoved over is: [my 34 cents] + [his 34 cents] + [65 cents from previous streets] - [$1.50 rake] = NEGATIVE $0.17
So we're literally fighting for a negative pot here! If I fold, I lose nothing beyond what's already in the pot. If I call and pay rake, I'm losing a further 17 cents!

So basically: best case scenario is I call and lose $0.17, worse case scenario is I call and lose $27.86. Either way I lose, mainly because of rake, but also because of the slight (but possible) chance that I'll be outdrawn to a flush.

So do you think that folding the nuts is correct here?
 
IPlay

IPlay

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Looks fine to me but is rake at 10NL really 15 big blinds?
 
6

6bet me

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Looks fine to me but is rake at 10NL really 15 big blinds?

Yes. For 10NL 6-max cash games on PokerStars, rake is 4.5% capped at $1.50. So if the pot is $33.33 or higher, you'll be paying the maximum rake ($1.50).
PokerStars Rake
 
C

CactusCat

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Yeah, I agree with the fold. Would be a huge calling mistake due to the possibility that he could be freeroling you.
 
TimovieMan

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Damn. I'd never even consider that.

I'd snap-call without thinking twice! :eek:
 
B

BPEPFPDP

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if my opponent has Axss and the river is another spade!

He has only 25% vs 75% hit the flush in most cases, so your decision kinda weird for me, you fold made hand, i'd prefer call river.
 
Aceplayer55

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Great catch !!
It costs 27.86 to call (28.20-.34).
The pot will be 57.05 (.65+28.2+28.2)
Pot after rake is 55.55 (57.05-1.50)
Your share = 27.77 (55.55/2 - BB gets extra .01)
So calling costs you .09, or 27.86 if he draws a flush.
However, you should fold even without the rake. The rake just means you always lose.
 
John A

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The rake on PS... I hope you guys all move somewhere else soon. That company is just doing some ridiculous out of control things. I'd find new places to play. I don't care how good the game are or aren't. I'm one of those people that just tries to avoid giving my money to people who don't respect or care about their customers, or the environment they are in.

I'm still stunned that they went back on their SNE deals and anyone who was playing at that level is still on there. They basically gambled that you guys wouldn't leave, and they were right.
 
TimovieMan

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Because they know that in several European countries, there are little alternatives at the higher stakes?
 
No Brainer

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Judging by the bet sizing he is a fish so what about the times he is just being a spastic? Maybe he flopped a set and cant fold so shoves instead.

Sure you may chop most of the times but I think he is spazzing out just as often as the times he has the straight plus the flush draw here.
 
Aces2w1n

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Ever since I started playing poker I taught myself from somewhere never to call a chopped pot lol. never really knew the explainations except that theres no point hoping for best case scenerios where you break-even and lose.

It's just bad money. Nice fold!!! I would've folded as well unless tilted :)
 
John A

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Because they know that in several European countries, there are little alternatives at the higher stakes?

Of course... but we're not talking about high stakes. That's the tip of their poker pyramid. You have a whole base of users though supporting this company. There are other options out there.
 
TimovieMan

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Yeah, but the SNE players are going to be higher stakes ones, no?

I can't imagine grinding there 24-tabling NL25.


Anyway, I've never been that big a fan of Stars. Used to play at the iPoker network. And now I've taken a liking to ACR.
 
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