$10 NLHE 6-max: Folding KK on the flop vs big 5bet shove from passive vill

Right, here's another one.

Villain is 21/7, AfQ 29%, 3bet 3% - 160 hands.

I had to fold here because I've been stacked too often recently by sets whe I have a big overpair. Villain is passive as well, which made me more inclined to fold, and we are 160BB deep.

I did the flop 4bet to get value from FDs and Qx hands, with the proviso that I'm folding if he 5bets. What do you think about this move and the sizing?


pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($10)
CO ($19.89)
Button ($19.37)
SB ($27.72)
BB ($14.94)
Hero (UTG) ($16.28)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K , K
Hero bets $0.30, 2 folds, Button calls $0.30, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.75) J , 6 , 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.48, Button raises to $0.96, Hero raises to $2.30, Button raises to $19.07 (All-In), Hero folds

Total pot: $5.35 | Rake: $0.24

You 3bet the flop, and I have no problems with raise/folding for value. I think you played it OK.

EDIT:

micromachine said:

I had to fold here because I've been stacked too often recently by sets whe I have a big overpair.

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I don't like this reasoning though. I prefer something like, it's unlikely that villain is doing this with anything that I am not crushed by given that he appears passive.

if he's shoving the same range he's min raising the flop with then why are we raising to fold to a shove?

probably more at cafe than micro.. your flop raise is a 3 bet btw.

I stack prob since he has JJ/66/33 that beat us and a million other retarded hands that we're ahead of imo.

Campbell92 said:

if he's shoving the same range he's min raising the flop with then why are we raising to fold to a shove?

probably more at cafe

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I don't think he is shoving the same range as he is min-raising the flop. IMO passives min raising flops is weighted towards TP, so we reraise for value, but then when he ships we are in bad shape. That's what I was thunkering anyhoo.

I don't think he's shipping AJ or a FD here. Maybe, maybe AhXh

I think sets and megadraws like 5h4h and AhJh are most likely

if he's passive I give him less draws, and more Jx + sets.

i'm not worried about FD's but if he's min raising TP isn't he going to shove over our raise?

so raise folding when we put him on TP is kinda bad.

Campbell92 said:

i'm not worried about FD's but if he's min raising TP isn't he going to shove over our raise?

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I don't think so. Why would a passive player shove TP for 160BB when I have shown strength?

fish don't really care about our ranges though do they?

giving him way too much credit for thinking imo.

raise/foldings an odd line, if you think he has better then flat and see a turn?

I didn't think he had better lol, I only thought that after the shove. I was betting for value primarily hoping to get called by AJ and FDs.

If I call, then check/call I have absolutely no idea where I am.

Campbell92 said:

if he's passive I give him less draws, and more Jx + sets.

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Agreed, fewer draws, more like TP.

Campbell92 said:

i'm not worried about FD's

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Agreed, vs an aggro reg sure, but not this guy.

Campbell92 said:

but if he's min raising TP isn't he going to shove over our raise?

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In my experience no, he'll call.

Campbell92 said:

so raise folding when we put him on TP is kinda bad.

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Disagree. He'll minraise AJ/KJ/QJ/JT/J9 etc. and call our 3bet. He won't fold and he's super unlikely to ship (unless he's an aggro tard - but he doesn't appear to be).

So I like raise/folding for value here.

so when he shoves we give him a range of JJ/66/33?

pretty tight.. in my experience some shove with worse, some call with worse, so its totally possible for him to have Jx here.

sup to you, just saying that calling here can't be that bad.

im pretty sure the best way to play these types is to flat his flop raise and let him barrel off. you have his raising range pretty dominated and its not likely hes raising a draw in position if hes a passive type. pot will get pretty decent by the river and he most certainly wont be shipping TP, so you can fold to a river shove, or call off a standard 1/2pot bet