$10 NLHE 6-max: Flopped a monster vs fish: raise or call?

micromachine

micromachine

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Total posts
5,770
Chips
0
Both villains likely fish:

BB 52/29 AfQ 78% (77 hands)
BTN 37/13 AfQ 29 (210 hands)

Do we raise or call? If raise how much to?

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($28.60)
Hero (UTG) ($20.60)
MP ($18.11)
Button ($5.27)
SB ($9.75)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K
diamond.gif
, A
spade.gif

Hero bets $0.30, 1 fold, Button calls $0.30, 1 fold, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.95) J
heart.gif
, Q
diamond.gif
, 10
club.gif
(3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.54, Button calls $0.54, BB raises to $2.43
 
naruto_miu

naruto_miu

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 31, 2007
Total posts
12,123
Awards
5
Chips
1
I would personally in this spot call vs BB raise and hope the BTN comes along...Thus on the turn assuming/hoping it don't pair, If BB again checks, I'd again donk it out, hoping they BTN tags along and thus BB does his RR and we jam then
 
JCgrind

JCgrind

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Total posts
2,490
Chips
0
^ who cares it button comes along? He has a 50bb stack. We care about the other guys 200bb stack, which is never going it without a raise. Plus, he's going to be scared of straight draws and consequently this is generally a pretty easy flop to get the nuts in. I 3b the flop to like $4.5, half pot the turn and ship the river
 
JCgrind

JCgrind

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Total posts
2,490
Chips
0
Also micro wtf is with your sizing on the flop? Half pot on that board?
 
C

c double

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 11, 2012
Total posts
38
Chips
0
He wants calls.. but I'm a raiser here. You can probably get the big stack all in, who knows if BB is even calling anyway
 
naruto_miu

naruto_miu

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 31, 2007
Total posts
12,123
Awards
5
Chips
1
^ who cares it button comes along? He has a 50bb stack. We care about the other guys 200bb stack, which is never going it without a raise. Plus, he's going to be scared of straight draws and consequently this is generally a pretty easy flop to get the nuts in. I 3b the flop to like $4.5, half pot the turn and ship the river


By 3betting the BB aren't you actually letting him/her know our hand?

Now the reason I purposed this line was to actually make the bb feel more comfortable on the turn (since we want to get the bb in+hoping the BTN chooses to spazz out with like KQ/QJ/98)...If that were to happen and assuming the BTN does spazz out then BB could do 1 of 2 things..Either flat call/RR...If not then on turn we donk out H.P on the 1/2-2/3rds on the turn
 
Last edited:
JCgrind

JCgrind

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Total posts
2,490
Chips
0
By 3betting the BB aren't you actually letting him/her know our hand?

Now the reason I purposed this line was to actually make the bb feel more comfortable on the turn (since we want to get the bb in+hoping the BTN chooses to spazz out with like KQ/QJ/98)...If that were to happen and assuming the BTN does spazz out then BB could do 1 of 2 things..Either flat call/RR...If not then on turn we donk out H.P on the 1/2-2/3rds on the turn


IMO nothing hes raising like that on the flop is folding, unless hes a tard doing it with a bare K high OESD or OESD + midpair type hand. honestly you should just be looking to ship flop bc theres like no hand here he can raise then fold, youre gunna cooler a huuuuge % of his range- sets, 2ps, combo draws, etc etc.
 
naruto_miu

naruto_miu

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 31, 2007
Total posts
12,123
Awards
5
Chips
1
IMO nothing hes raising like that on the flop is folding, unless hes a tard doing it with a bare K high OESD or OESD + midpair type hand. honestly you should just be looking to ship flop bc theres like no hand here he can raise then fold, youre gunna cooler a huuuuge % of his range- sets, 2ps, combo draws, etc etc.



BB 52/29 AfQ 78%, do these stats not imply BB is a huge aggressive tard? No matter how aggressive of a tard BB maybe (He'd have to be a maniac), to actually call a shove with a pure bluff attempt, so all your doing in the end would be letting him off easily no? If his stats were more down the lines of say a 20/q7 or 24/19 then I'd understand your reasoning for it but against this player (You really think they have a set? Maybe 2 pair at best but I'd still think a combo draw is in there, and they might call it off vs a shove but (they'd have to be really retarded to call it on a draw to the nuts hoping to hit only an ace), but then again I'm not that good at cash just putting my thoughts on it is all..

I personally would like to know what OP did to see what happened in the hand next...Also not for the results just so you all know just to know what BB ended up doing in the hand afterwards is all
 
JCgrind

JCgrind

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Total posts
2,490
Chips
0
BB 52/29 AfQ 78%, do these stats not imply BB is a huge aggressive tard? No matter how aggressive of a tard BB maybe (He'd have to be a maniac), to actually call a shove with a pure bluff attempt, so all your doing in the end would be letting him off easily no? If his stats were more down the lines of say a 20/q7 or 24/19 then I'd understand your reasoning for it but against this player (You really think they have a set? Maybe 2 pair at best but I'd still think a combo draw is in there, and they might call it off vs a shove but (they'd have to be really retarded to call it on a draw to the nuts hoping to hit only an ace), but then again I'm not that good at cash just putting my thoughts on it is all..

I personally would like to know what OP did to see what happened in the hand next...Also not for the results just so you all know just to know what BB ended up doing in the hand afterwards is all


tbh i think this just increases his calling range further. since hes so bad i expect bare TP hands to call AI. ......lol. too many shit turn cards to not try GII OTF i think
 
OMGITSOVER9K

OMGITSOVER9K

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 29, 2011
Total posts
2,994
Chips
0
jc no point sizing your bets as you would to a reg, might as well make it 6-8 and snap off the shove imo.

fish isn't gonna know the diff and plus, in his eyes you probably dont even have cards.

and narutomui, people at micros rarely bluff broadway boards since it hits peoples ranges so often.

even if he is a a retard, we get more value from stacking his value hands and making his bluffs fold.. this is assuming he barrels off his 200bb stack as a bluff every time too.
 
JCgrind

JCgrind

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Total posts
2,490
Chips
0
Do you think? IMO he jams more over the smaller bet/ calls thinking he's slow playing. 6-8 I swear gets flats then folds too much I think
Obvno evidence of this though as I can't see cards :p
 
OMGITSOVER9K

OMGITSOVER9K

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 29, 2011
Total posts
2,994
Chips
0
nah you're leveling too much imo, the sizing just lets him jam easier without it looking like a massive overbet

and if he flats flop he prob calls off on blank turns more with this sizing than trying to get it in on 3 streets

the fish doesn't know that smaller bets allow regs to bluff cheaper, so they also do this with their value range to balance.. he just knows that you raised him and he has TPTK/TP+StrDr/Sets (trips in fishspeak)

but I know you know all this anyway jc, its prob more for the lurkers and other readers tbh
 
micromachine

micromachine

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Total posts
5,770
Chips
0
Also micro wtf is with your sizing on the flop? Half pot on that board?

I'm trying out 60% cbet size ATM, think I was burning money with 75%. Also vs fish a slightly smaller bet will seem weak and I caN get stuff like Q8 to stay in, I would have done 70% ott if I hadn't been reraised.
 
OMGITSOVER9K

OMGITSOVER9K

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 29, 2011
Total posts
2,994
Chips
0
micro, I read a book the other day which says you should be sizing your flop + turn bets according to your percieved range

so when you raise UTG and see a flop, you should be betting close to pot since your range should be strong, but in spots where your range includes a lot of air you should be betting smaller.. considered trying that instead? seems a solid way to go.

this is only vs regs though, imo vs fish we can be crazy unbalanced and get away with it.
 
Top