$10 NLHE 6-max: Donk bet or check call line preferable?

***** Hand History for Game 1111111111 ***** (poker stars)

$10.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Monday, August 24, 07:02:57 ET 2015
Table Amundsenia III (real money)

Seat 5 is the button

Seat 1: Hero ( $17.13 USD ) - VPIP: 22, PFR: 16, 3B: 9, AF:2.1, hands: 78618
Seat 2: Player2 ( $10.15 USD ) - VPIP: 18, PFR: 14, 3B: 6, AF: 4.5, Hands: 50
Seat 3: Player3 ( $14.66 USD ) - VPIP: 39, PFR: 17, 3B: 0, AF: 4.0, Hands: 77
Seat 4: Player4 ( $10.27 USD ) - VPIP: 21, PFR: 14, 3B: 6, AF: 1.3, Hands: 289
Seat 5: Player5 ( $10.00 USD ) - VPIP: 30, PFR: 11, 3B: 0, AF: 0.6, Hands: 27
Seat 6: Player6 ( $10.30 USD ) - VPIP: 23, PFR: 14, 3B: 7, AF: 0.0, Hands: 44

Player6 posts small blind [$0.05 USD].
Hero posts big blind [$0.10 USD].

** Dealing down cards **

Dealt to Hero [ 9c Jc ]

Player2 folds
Player3 raises [$0.50 USD]
Player4 folds
Player5 folds
Player6 folds
Hero calls [$0.40 USD]

** Dealing Flop ** [ 6d, Ac, 8c ]

Hero bets [$0.62 USD]
Player3 calls [$0.62 USD]

** Dealing Turn ** [ Qd ]

Hero bets [$1.35 USD]
Player3 calls [$1.35 USD]

** Dealing River ** [ 2c ]

Hero bets [$3.43 USD]
Player3 raises [$12.19 USD]
Hero calls [$8.76 USD]
Player3 shows [??,??]
Hero shows [9c, Jc ]

So what do you think here? I should add this player had shown down some really weird hands from all positions and his 5x pre was not uncommon at the time.

Will update the hand after some discussion to show results.

New to this, after I see everybody else's responses I often would have changed mine, but I am starting to think that peoples analysis are far to fancy. Great for learning perhaps, maybe, but on the other hand simple straight forward lines may be more profitable more often than not.

I like to 3-bet pre. I see you do also, but mixed it up here be calling. Then I like to check flop often to look like I am slowplaying as though the flop hit me (if it didn't), but your flop gave you a draw and I bet aggressively on draws. So looks good so far. I would say he showed weakness by only calling your post flop bet, bet I see he hasn't 3-bet in his stats so it may not show weakness, but some strength. Perhaps he is drawing to the diamond flush as well and that is what it looks like. I would be concerned. Here is where some folks get to fancy and IMO start to over think. If I think I am beat I am looking for an exit strategy not a sophisticated maneuver to get all the chips in and say, "Well, if we lose in this spot that's poker." Maybe in MTT with the blinds growing ya gotta make moves, but not in cash games.

I am almost certain by the turn that he has Kc, Xc and has ya beat. Call fold river.

$10 NLHE 6-max: Donk bet or check call line preferable?

Delvuter said:

New to this, after I see everybody else's responses I often would have changed mine, but I am starting to think that peoples analysis are far to fancy. Great for learning perhaps, maybe, but on the other hand simple straight forward lines may be more profitable more often than not.



I like to 3-bet pre. I see you do also, but mixed it up here be calling. Then I like to check flop often to look like I am slowplaying as though the flop hit me (if it didn't), but your flop gave you a draw and I bet aggressively on draws. So looks good so far. I would say he showed weakness by only calling your post flop bet, bet I see he hasn't 3-bet in his stats so it may not show weakness, but some strength. Perhaps he is drawing to the diamond flush as well and that is what it looks like. I would be concerned. Here is where some folks get to fancy and IMO start to over think. If I think I am beat I am looking for an exit strategy not a sophisticated maneuver to get all the chips in and say, "Well, if we lose in this spot that's poker." Maybe in MTT with the blinds growing ya gotta make moves, but not in cash games.



I am almost certain by the turn that he has Kc, Xc and has ya beat. Call fold river.

Click to expand...

I opted to flat here as 3 betting would mean 4x his 5x open as OOP for $2 which dramatically reduces the stack to pot ratio where I am already at a positional disadvantage but have a post flop edge over villain (losing player from the small sample I have) so calling keeps his entire range in and gives me more room to manoeuvre post flop.

I decide to donk to 1) balance my donk range 2) if I make my draw with a check call line here I struggle to get value once my hand is made. 3) although LAGGY stats this villain had made some real fishy plays, fish don't respond well to donking at micros i have found and often make more mistakes here.

Once he flats my flop bet I can be quite sure his range is marginal at best, if not a float with air which wouldn't be the first time Id seen this. If I include all his non Ax pairs and floats in his range I can barrel the turn when I pick up the gutshot with my flush draw as I have fold equity here and it is a tough call with less. I actually eliminate big flush draws on the flop as I think he would raise his KXc flush draw here given his aggression in previous hands and history.

River brings my flush, I go for max value with a decent bet here thinking once he calls the turn bet he has to be stronger than I give him credit for, Ax, 2P maybe even set he's slow playing. When jammed on here, I had eliminated the K flush on the flop from his range and have to stick with my read I think, QTc is the only hand in his range that beats me here I feel that can call flop and turn. I beat all but one hand really and I see him making this play with sets, 2P, some AXd combos sometimes lower flushes and air as I took a strange line to have a flush here.

I did call the river shove btw...

Yeah, I guess if you had seen him lay down some fishy hands at showdown your play looks fine, in my limited experience. I have converted from ABC poker (Nitty since I was a beginner) to LAG, it was a hard transition, but totally worth it. I still like to avoid confrontation and target fit or fold players. I don't concern myself at this point with trying to get involved with massive pots where I am not certain unless I get a well disguised nuts and I am sure, which I often do now that I have started playing 25%> VPIP and 3-Betting way more. 89s, 9Ts, TJs even 78s is my bread and butter, plus sets with no draws. I get straights and flushes with minimal confrontation frequently enough now that I am not going to wrestle for one single pot and risk my stack. I guess I am not a trophy hunter and am willing to take down a bunch of uncontested pots vs. a few big pots where I may lose it all. That is where I am kinda not understanding everybodies over thinking this whole poker thing. Find a fit fold fish and fry him and leave the crazy donks alone who manage to accidentally win regs chips stacks.

You got lucky....I fold preflop, no need to tangle oop against a x5 opening raise with this hand.
As played what was the plan for the river if you brick?
Plenty of Ax in his range here, his AF is already low so hes just likely to call along whilst you are betting for him.
If he's fishy and his stats are starting to look it and he looks down and sees two pair like AQ the money goes in, likely he's not thinking about you making a flush he's only thinking about his hand so its a definite call and I'd expect to see 2 pair all day, occasionally you might lose to a bigger flush but that is the penalty you pay for chasing J high flushes.

I had been at the table with this villain, I'm confident J9 is actually ahead of his range here and when it's not I can flop well, even OOP hence the call. The only decent hand heh had shown down was KK which were a 3x open, he had 5x opened a few times though and the 3 hands I had seen 1 was garbage and the other suited connectors.

A.F of 4.0 at these stakes is high over 70 hands, majority show around 1-2 usually closer to 1.

River was a shut down if bricked, I only barrel the turn as I picked up the gutshot too and as you mentioned above I have the implied odds when he has a hand if I make mine as he is rarely folding a made hand there and fold equity the times he has air (which is not unlikely for this player)

As it turned out he had the 64c...

As you mentioned the chasing J high flushes, this is the reason for the donk, I am not chasing my flush at all here, that would be a check call line, I am semi bluffing with equity when called, at no point was I chasing...

English?

I am mind blown that he showed 64c. Why isn't that guy ever sitting at my table! I have consistently lost flushes to higher flushes in that spot. But yeah, paying attention to the players tendencies is crucial.

I am going to have to ponder the, "I am not chasing my flush at all here, that would be a check call line, I am semi bluffing with equity when called, at no point was I chasing..." comment. I have noticed people talking about turning their value bets into bluffs and I am having troubles grasping that. Once I have that concept down I think I will have turned a major corner.

sorry I was looking at the wrong player stats...ignore. I'm still folding pre though.

Nice hand.

Folding or especially 3-betting pre seems like spew.

If you know his fold to cbet or fold to 3bet we could aim for a steal?

Also your table image would help FE and we got a plan b if he calls.

I'm more of a check/call on the river if you think he's capable of holding a stronger c and chase down with Ax type hands. If it was against a tag or a stronger reg i'd bet the river.

Since we are deep I don't mind calling pre and I am for sure not 3 betting(Would be different if we could squeeze). I fold pre if we are 100bb deep.

I honestly hardly like donking myself, especially with draws since they are raised somewhat often. I would prefer a check raise line myself.