$10 NLHE 6-max: Defend against 3bet oop w/ pocket pairs?

I am having a hard time defending against 3-bets, especially those who 3-bet wide and play post flop aggressively.

This player was less aggressive than others, but here it had me thinking that I can't get value from 99 in this spot... it can only work as a bluff catcher, and even then it can get out drawn.

Should I raise less utg? With my sizing now and the size of the 3-bet, I break even set-mining if I can get stacks in 100% of the time.

Typically I raise .35 utg, .30 hj, .25 from CO and BTN.

Let me know!

Yatahay Network - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 62.4 BB
BTN: 100 BB
SB: 184.7 BB
BB: 160.6 BB
Hero (UTG): 100 BB
MP: 329.4 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 9♦ 9♠

Hero raises to 3.5 BB, MP calls 3.5 BB, fold, BTN raises to 15 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 11.5 BB, MP calls 11.5 BB

Flop: (46.5 BB, 3 players) 7♥ 2♠ 4♠
Hero checks, MP checks, BTN bets 14.1 BB, Hero calls 14.1 BB, fold

Turn: (74.7 BB, 2 players) J♥
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: (74.7 BB, 2 players) 5♥
Hero checks, BTN bets 42.3 BB, fold

BTN wins 71 BB
:icon_bigs

What's the reasoning behind the sizing changes by position? I would 3x from all positions as RFI and add 1 BB per limper sometimes an additional BB from the blinds for being OOP.

The check back on the turn would be enough for me to want to call this river as played. V should be betting all of his flush draws and over pairs and sets on the turn. I think V shows up with a lot of AQ+ here. The only hand that I think would want to take this line that beats you is TT. Why would an overpair or set let both flush draws see a free card? I can't imagine a backdoor heart draw doesn't want to apply pressure on the turn either. I may have even bet / folded this river, but if I'm checking it's probably to call.

If you ask a program like PokerSnowie, it actually recommend doing the exact opposite of, what you do. From early position you want to use a small raise size to not lose to much, when someone with position on you puts in a 3-bet. From BTN on the other hand this is not a concern, and then you want to go bigger to give the blinds a bad price to defend.

This is pretty much the GTO strategy, which will work well against good players. Then of course we can start to talk about adjustments against people, who dont defend their blinds enough against a small open, the simplicity of using the same size from all positions, adjustments to games, where people call in position rather than 3-bet etc. At the end of the day more than 3x from EP is a pretty outdated strategy, which few good online players use these days.

Flop and turn is fine in my opinion, but your river fold makes no sense. Sure he might have backdoored into a flush from time to time or maybe completed a wheel draw, but there are 16 combos of AK, and only one of them is AhKh. All the others can however represent the flush, when you check again on the river. Some story with AQ and KQ, if he has it in his 3-betting range. So this is a spot, where he can have a ton of bluffs, and especially if he is an aggressive player, you just have to pay him off, if he happen to have it this time.

fundiver199 said:

If you ask a program like PokerSnowie, it actually recommend doing the exact opposite of, what you do. From early position you want to use a small raise size to not lose to much, when someone with position on you puts in a 3-bet. From BTN on the other hand this is not a concern, and then you want to go bigger to give the blinds a bad price to defend.

This is pretty much the GTO strategy, which will work well against good players. Then of course we can start to talk about adjustments against people, who dont defend their blinds enough against a small open, the simplicity of using the same size from all positions, adjustments to games, where people call in position rather than 3-bet etc. At the end of the day more than 3x from EP is a pretty outdated strategy, which few good online players use these days.

Click to expand...

This is mind blowing to me. Would you recommend that at 10nl? .22 maybe from UTG, MP, then up to pot on the BTN?

I raise smaller on the BTN typically b/c I get 3 bet more aggressively from players defending the blinds and I want to play more and smaller pots in position (this may not be logical- against aggressive 3bettors though it can be hard to float a lot of flops even IP for me)

Also, the reason I folded river is that I couldn't find a hand worse than mine. His line could also be JJ, which could check behind turn
1) b/c he dominated the board and ....
2) b/c I won't have too many suited backdoor combos (way less than him) as an utg open and flat that floated flop. So he wont be scared by many rivers

Let me know if my logic is flawed. Responses have been super helpful as always

Yeah most of the things I’ve read suggest bet sizing up the earlier you are (as you do) which is what I follow. 3.5x early vs 2.5x button

You want less callers and are playing stronger hands OOP and so size up. On button you are wider and want the call rather than 3bet so size down as you suggest

I think the way you played is fine. It’s tough to find the right line for the mid pairs that your set mining I find and am also looking for optimal sizing but think the hand was ok as played - you could have made the call (what’s he really holding here?) - think there’s a lot of AK/AQ in his range and only two of the combos get him to the flush.

Your sizing pre and on the flop are just too massive. This is why you are getting pushed off hands at the end since your betting makes no sense. You want to try to be more consistent with bets, this way it's a lot harder to get a read on what you have. You want to look for a 2.5-3x open pre and a half size pot on the flop.

teh_colonel_saigon said:

This is mind blowing to me. Would you recommend that at 10nl? .22 maybe from UTG, MP, then up to pot on the BTN?

Click to expand...

Personally I just use 3x from everywhere, because its easy, and it works well enough in typical online games. But if I do anything different, then it is to go 2,5x at tough tables with aggressive 3-betting. I never go larger than 3x, unless there is some totally crazy fish in the blinds, and I have a premium.

teh_colonel_saigon said:

Also, the reason I folded river is that I couldn't find a hand worse than mine.

Click to expand...

He 3-bet in position, made a small C-bet in position, checked back turn. He can have a ton of whiffed overcards taking this line. AK, AQ, KQs is 33 combos already. Your hand is a bluff catcher, but sometimes you need to do just that. Try to catch a bluff. You can also turn it around and ask, what are the best hands, you dont bet on the river? Then you need to call with those to defend against an aggressive regular. Maybe you have a few monsters, you want to check-jam, but other than that I guess, 99-TT must be the top of your range.

teh_colonel_saigon said:

I am having a hard time defending against 3-bets, especially those who 3-bet wide and play post flop aggressively.

This player was less aggressive than others, but here it had me thinking that I can't get value from 99 in this spot... it can only work as a bluff catcher, and even then it can get out drawn.

Should I raise less utg? With my sizing now and the size of the 3-bet, I break even set-mining if I can get stacks in 100% of the time.

Typically I raise .35 utg, .30 hj, .25 from CO and BTN.

Let me know!

Yatahay Network - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 62.4 BB
BTN: 100 BB
SB: 184.7 BB
BB: 160.6 BB
Hero (UTG): 100 BB
MP: 329.4 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 9♦ 9♠

Hero raises to 3.5 BB, MP calls 3.5 BB, fold, BTN raises to 15 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 11.5 BB, MP calls 11.5 BB

Flop: (46.5 BB, 3 players) 7♥ 2♠ 4♠
Hero checks, MP checks, BTN bets 14.1 BB, Hero calls 14.1 BB, fold

Turn: (74.7 BB, 2 players) J♥
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: (74.7 BB, 2 players) 5♥
Hero checks, BTN bets 42.3 BB, fold

BTN wins 71 BB
:icon_bigs

Click to expand...

Well, I guess this hand was well played til the river. For a 6-MAX cash table, do not try to get fancy raising 3.5 from UTG, because we are opening 15% range, and that means a lot of hands: we are raising first from UTG all of the pocket pairs, all of the best broadways and suited connectors such as 98s and T9s, which are not very common at 5 NLHE but natural at 100 NLHE.
We must have a price that combines our whole range from the times we are raising JTs, QTs, KTs, ATs, Axs, 22 etc: most of times we do not own the nuts from UTG, so a sizing that would work fine for the weaker and the stronger part of our range would be 3x.
Also, we are not forced to call 3-bet/Squeeze with dominated hands, because when we do call with 99, Villain still has TT, JJ, QQ, KK and AA, so even if we do catch a lower flop it will be very hard to play our pocket pairs.
Rule of thumb of sizing: as bigger we increase our bets and raises more commited we do get with the hand, whether we like it or not: we are more inclined to go with inflated and bloated pots than smaller pots that we think are uninteresting, when they are the real source of our winrate.
Use the same sizing for value and for bluff, forget about the hand you have, think about the situation you are in (perceived ranges) and against who you are up to, to always make the best decisions.

Regards;

Carlos 'Aballinamion' Barbosa

You should be raising 2.5BB from all spots except Sb vs Bb, then 3BB or even 3.5BB since the BB has more incentive to call.

If player on button is very aggro don't be afraid to 4bet, especially against an obvious squeeze. People don't 4bet light very often at these stakes so doing it once or twice should be enough to slow him down 3betting your raises.