Originally Posted by Aces2w1n
1. Fold to 3bet because we have CO to worry about. We flat and CO decides to raise then what??? CO calls and we still OOP. Calling pre 3bets with PP and SC is a leak.
2. You need to learn to classify your hand better, sure we pickup 2pairs but it's a multiway board and we are often beat.
3. We get the option to take a free card.... Well take advantage! why lose the advantage by betting, ur now betting being predictable and walked into a trap.
4. checking turn is important because it's pot control and now on the river we can gain value from Kx type hands... By betting we are getting rid of his weak hands and he's waking up with monsters like this.
Summary Learn to classify your hand... You have showdown value but that's it.
1. I really do not expect CO to 4bet after he flat-called my 2bet. I'm not at all concerned about this because it happens so rarely. I expect him to fold about 30% of the time and call the 3bet the other 70% of the time (knowing that he's closing the action with good pot odds). And I have position over the PFR (which is the important thing), plus I know that the CO most likely has some kind of drawing hands, based upon his preflop actions (most likely low to medium pocket pairs or suited connectors, perhaps a few hands like KQo, KJo, AJo and ATo). My range is a lot less defined than the CO, so that's another benefit (since there is a much wider range of hands that would raise preflop and flat a 3bet, vs hands that would flat a 2bet and then flat a 3bet).
2. That's the thing though... how often are we really beat here? I see so many draws out there (hands like AJ and KJ chasing an OESD, hands like AQ and KQ chasing a gutshot, as well as 2 diamond hands chasing a flush) and I really need to protect myself against these draws, but I don't see many hands that beat me that would take this line. If the CO had a set, I would've expected him to raise the flop, and if the villain (BB) has a set, I would've expected him to barrel the turn more often than not (sure, he will have a set sometimes, but I made the decision to call his check-shove and take my chances).
3. The free card will almost always be bad for me. Is there a single river card that does me some good? Either it pairs the board and I only get action from better boats, or it fills up a bunch of straight draws (as it did in this case, causing 4 to a straight), or it counterfeits me in some way. I didn't want to lose value from draws and AA/AK/KQ/QQ hands that could potentially call my $5.50 turn bet. If it's a trap, then so be it, but I can't allow myself to get outdrawn or lose action on the river... or even worse, have a river card that allows someone with a worse hand to bluff me!
4. Do we really expect a hand like KJ to fold to a turn bet? They would have top pair + an OESD. Even KQ might decide to be sticky with top pair + a gutshot. Why lose value from these hands? And why check and allow a hand like AK or AA to counterfeit me on the river?
I have a hand with showdown value on a very wet board with a lot of draws out there. I have to worry about a lot of river cards and for that reason, I made a turn value bet for protection.