€10 NLHE 6-max: is the check raise ok on the flop ?

O

oshep21

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€10.00 EUR NL Texas Hold'em Table 10 Max (real money)

Seat 5 is the button
Seat 1: Player1 ( €10.00 EUR ) - VPIP: 22, PFR: 18, 3B: 8, AF: 1.8, hands: 973
Seat 2: Hero ( €10.15 EUR ) - VPIP: 22, PFR: 18, 3B: 8, AF: 2.9, Hands: 147982
Seat 3: Player3 ( €10.79 EUR ) - VPIP: 27, PFR: 21, 3B: 0, AF: 2.0, Hands: 56
Seat 4: Player4 ( €10.71 EUR ) - VPIP: 19, PFR: 15, 3B: 7, AF: 3.4, Hands: 4189
Seat 5: Player5 ( €15.05 EUR ) - VPIP: 25, PFR: 25, 3B: 0, AF: 0.7, Hands: 20
Seat 6: Player6 ( €10.80 EUR ) - VPIP: 23, PFR: 1, 3B: 1, AF: 4.5, Hands: 273
Player6 posts small blind [€0.05 EUR].
Hero posts big blind [€0.10 EUR].
Dealt to Hero [ Qd Jd ]
Player3 folds
Player4 folds
Player5 raises [€0.30 EUR]
Player6 folds
Hero calls [€0.20 EUR]

** Dealing Flop ** [ 2d, 9d, Js ]
Hero checks
Player5 bets [€0.50 EUR]
Hero raises [€1.50 EUR]
Player5 calls [€1.00 EUR]

** Dealing Turn ** [ Th ]
Hero bets [€2.00 EUR]
Player5 calls [€2.00 EUR]
** Dealing River ** [ 7c ]

Hero ?

we got e pretty good flop. the problem is that i have a very small sample of the villain(20Hands) and that's why i chose the aggressive option
Obviously we have the option to just check/fold the river. What do you think would be optimal? my line of thinking is that he has some kind of over, or a nut flush draw possibly with a jack(or AK,AQ). of course we are way behind if he has an over, could maybe maybe fold QQ or even KK, since we are representing also a set, on the other half he would maybe fold these on the turn.
what to do?
 
TimovieMan

TimovieMan

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my line of thinking is that he has some kind of over, or a nut flush draw possibly with a jack(or AK,AQ). of course we are way behind if he has an over, could maybe maybe fold QQ or even KK, since we are representing also a set, on the other half he would maybe fold these on the turn.
what to do?
We're repping top pair more than anything, imo. And I don't think he has an overpair. Most people would've 4-bet you on the flop with one. And if he has one, he's not folding it.

I check, planning on calling up to 4$ (but hating it). I'd prefer to see him check behind, because then we win.
That four-straight is probably even scarier for him than it is for you, so he's checking behind most of the time, imo.
Check/fold is an option, but we're inducing a bluff here, so I prefer to check/call.
 
PokerNinja91

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Check raising the flop doesn't achieve much imo. We're building a pot OOP with a hand that we're not thrilled about and we're never folding out any better hands, we're also not getting value from too much. Flush draws I guess and maybe 10-J I suppose.
I might do this with some flush draws which I want to build a pot with or gutshots which I don't want to call with but not top pair. Check Call is best here.
As played check river, he's almost never betting it unless he has the straight which is very unlikely so it's probably gonna go check check. If you bet river then I'm not sure you can fold out better, it's such a weird line and villain could easily put you a flush draw that missed and call you with worse but I can't think of a hand that gets to the river here that you're ahead of other than a missed draw, which isn't going to call anyway so check is best I think. Calling or folding if he bets, really not sure which - his range is so polarised to either missed draws or the nuts. Probably folding I think
 
AntonEast

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I would definitely check/call or fold, he could have a better hand like jack with better kicker, he probably hasn't overpair. If you bet you may be raised if he have made his draw and you lose, if you check he may be checking back with a missed draw and you win or he tries to bluff with a bet and you call and win. looks like you are winning this hand but not necessary to value bet or something since he may have a better hand. keep the pot small when you don't know if you're winning
 
IPlay

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I have said it before and I'll say it again, x/raise these flops when you flop bottom/middle pair and a flush draw. bluffing with top pair is just gross when you can easily call and see a turn and allow villain to maybe bluff with a double barrel and make some more money from a wider range.
 
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Check-raise on flop is not good. We're behind their continuing range. Against most people, I would turn our hand into a bluff by jamming river to get him off AJ/some two pair/overpairs since our check-raise range contains a lot of straight draws. He can't really have an 8 much of the time nor KQ for the nut straight. But against this Villain with an AF of 0.7, I just check-fold. He might be slowplaying us with the nut straight/straight, and he might just call down anyway without a straight.

Choosing to play a hand aggressively for the sake of aggression is flawed fundamentals. We either bet strictly for value (enough worse hands will call) or as a bluff (to fold out better hands). Nothing in-between.
 
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c9h13no3

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I have said it before and I'll say it again, x/raise these flops when you flop bottom/middle pair and a flush draw. Bluffing with top pair is just gross when you can easily call and see a turn and allow villain to maybe bluff with a double barrel and make some more money from a wider range.
I'm agreeing with you too much lately, its annoying.
 
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oshep21

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Check-raise on flop is not good. We're behind
Choosing to play a hand aggressively for the sake of aggression is flawed fundamentals. We either bet strictly for value (enough worse hands will call) or as a bluff (to fold out better hands). Nothing in-between.

You are absolutely right! I agree totally. I did jam the river and he called with KK, i turned up right but its still a wrong play though.

Thank you all for the answers !
 
Aces2w1n

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Lol i disagree with u guys.

Paired with flush draw is great for check raising.

I want to shove turn tbh.. great bluff hand with huge equity but only good if we play other made hands this way.

Makes us hard to play against if we are willing to gamble
 
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