$10 NLHE 6-max: cbetting 2nd best pair on the flop, after call should I check the turn?

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MungBeans

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$10 NLHE 6-max: cbetting 2nd best pair on the flop, after call should I check the turn?

SB: hero (stack: 100bb) Qs 9c
BB: villain (stack: 100bb)

Preflop
fold, fold, fold, fold,
hero: raise to 3bb,
villain: call 3bb

flop (pot 7.5bb) Ah Qd 5d
hero: bet 4bb
villain: call 4bb

turn (pot 15.5bb) 2c
hero: bet 8 bb
villain call 8 bb

river (31.5 bb) Qc
hero: bet 15bb
villain: call 15bb


My question is do you think i should bet the turn or check it?
 
Alucard

Alucard

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I'm personally checking flop betting T,R
even if I'm betting flop with anything I'm going smaller on that flop. 33%-40%
 
Boston10111

Boston10111

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I'm personally checking flop betting T,R
even if I'm betting flop with anything I'm going smaller on that flop. 33%-40%


This seems to work better I think cause I never get people to fold flop. Hardly.

I think a check in turn could be find. Your out of position. And him calling means he could have queen(likely higher kicker) or ace.

Of course always bet on that turn :)
 
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I'm personally checking flop betting T,R
even if I'm betting flop with anything I'm going smaller on that flop. 33%-40%

Betting smaller makes sense. Why are you checking the flop? And what would you do if he bets the flop?
 
Alucard

Alucard

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Betting smaller makes sense. Why are you checking the flop? And what would you do if he bets the flop?


This is the general approach I'd take on dry flops when I'm the preflop aggressor.
Very Strong hands - Bet
Medium strngth hands - Check call (TP weak kicker, mid pair)
Weakest pairs, Some bluffs - Bet

Q9 here is a medium strangth hand & a good bluff catcher & a max two strt value hand. So we either pot control flop or turn.
I don't mind betting the flop since it's a steal but I like check calling or checking & betting turn. His range should be very strong to call a double barrel there which is not the case in BvB spots
 
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fundiver199

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I am also check-calling this flop. Whenever we bet in poker, we need to a reason for it, and what does a bet really do? Is it for value? No because while we are ahead of some hands, that call, these are mainly draws with decent equity, and we are way behind, when he call with a better made hand. Overall we are not happy, when he call, so we are not betting for value.

Is it a bluff then? Also no, because he is never folding a better hand. Are we denying equity and protection our hand then? Also not really, because draws call, and most of the hands, that fold, were drawing nearly dead. Pocket pairs below the Q had 2 outs, and small suited connectors etc. needed a runner-runner to win. Finally betting open the door for him to raise, in which case we have to fold and dont even get to see the turn card. In general its a big leak to C-bet to much out of position.
 
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MungBeans

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Thank you for your explanations!
 
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kkonicke

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I tend to agree with checking flop here, but I don't think betting is THAT bad. I think as played, betting turn is probably fine. Checking makes your holding way too obvious. As played, I think you missed some value on the river. My guess is this guy has Ax and is going to call down just about anything. I don't think he'd buy a Q, a larger bet would probably look a lot like missed diamonds. I would probably bet 23-25 BB on the river and expect a call with A9 off...I suspect he'd even pay off an overbet, but I feel anything more than 23-25 BB is getting greedy and might push him to fold.
 
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fundiver199

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I tend to agree with checking flop here, but I don't think betting is THAT bad. I think as played, betting turn is probably fine. Checking makes your holding way too obvious. As played, I think you missed some value on the river. My guess is this guy has Ax and is going to call down just about anything. I don't think he'd buy a Q, a larger bet would probably look a lot like missed diamonds. I would probably bet 23-25 BB on the river and expect a call with A9 off...I suspect he'd even pay off an overbet, but I feel anything more than 23-25 BB is getting greedy and might push him to fold.


I tend to agree. As played he is never putting us on QX, because QX should not play like this, and a lot of his range is AX, which will probably pay off a larger bet.
 
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Actually BvB I think your line is ok and agree river definitely can bet bigger. You may want to check the flop/turn sometimes with Qx but not all the time. If you villain has Ax, would have paid you off as you may triple barrel missed flush and actually he could have some weaker Qx BvB.
 
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