$10 NLHE 6-max: Calling a turn shove with TPTK in 3bet pot

6

6bet me

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 13, 2015
Total posts
835
Chips
0
10NL 6-max zoom on pokerstars. Villain is unknown.

Hero (BTN): $10.58
SB: $25.19
BB: $7.38
UTG: $10.62
MP: $7.50
CO: $30.94

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BTN with A:diamond: K:spade:
2 folds, CO raises to $0.30, Hero raises to $1, 2 folds, CO calls $0.70

Flop: ($2.15) 7:spade: 6:diamond: K:club: (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $1.43, CO calls $1.43

Turn: ($5.01) J:heart: (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $3, CO raises to $9.79, Hero calls $5.15 all in

What do you think about the way I played this hand? And what do you think about my bet sizing and decision to call the turn shove?
 
Sil3ntness

Sil3ntness

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 14, 2014
Total posts
1,171
Chips
0
It's been awhile since I've played cash, but that turn shove looks really strong from villain. Especially seeing his stack size is sitting at 300 BB (Would think villain has been getting paid off by several people)

I really wanna say that 66 or 77 hits his range on the turn. Especially with his cold call preflop.
 
TimovieMan

TimovieMan

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 16, 2016
Total posts
2,264
Chips
0
The line he took is super-strong, and against most players your TPTK is not going to be good here. Think you're going to be good here the 25% of the time you have to be to make this call?

I wouldn't mind a fold here. This is going to be 66/77 (or even a funky KJ) way too often.
You're rarely getting more than two streets of value from a TPTK hand. You could realistically check the turn through without losing much equity here, planning to call any river bet.

Stacking off with TPTK is generally not a good idea.


Not that I wouldn't play it the same, though. :)
 
Last edited:
6

6bet me

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 13, 2015
Total posts
835
Chips
0
That's actually an interesting idea that you came up with Tim. I never even considered checking back the turn. I guess I've just trained myself to always bet the flop and turn with TPTK and hope that I don't get check-raised. Do the merits of checking back the turn outweigh the potential loss of value?
 
Shumkoolie

Shumkoolie

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 5, 2010
Total posts
1,209
Awards
1
Chips
0
I agree with everything that's been said on here so far. Calling the 3bet OOP and then checking on the flop is VERY strong and seems to be the standard play by most players when flopping a set. If you're the kind of player that can get away from TPTK (sometimes I'm able to, and sometimes I'm not), then the OOP player is losing a lot of value by not leading on the flop.

Players are often so preoccupied with getting their opponents to dictate the betting that they are losing out on equity that they could have gained by leading out themselves.

Take this board for example, 67K rainbow. If you flop a set here, you should think about leading out because now your opponent who flopped TPTK, if they are the type of player that will spazz out with that kind of hand and raise you, will increase the likelihood of all the money getting in.

Most players still make that mistake of getting married to that kind of hand, so why not take the lead sometimes and see if the money can get in. I know it's helped me in a lot of instances where I led out and the 3 better just was too aggressive and paid me off.
 
John A

John A

Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Total posts
6,492
Awards
3
Chips
37
Well, you can't bet/fold the turn vs his range. So when you bet the turn you need to know ahead of time that you're calling it off. Even if you say his range is only KK+,JJ,AK,77,66,76,89,KJ... you have too much equity to fold.

So against an unknown I don't mind bet/calling. I think it's slightly higher EV long term then checking vs and unknown. You're going to of course see JJ,77,66 here a lot.
 
TimovieMan

TimovieMan

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 16, 2016
Total posts
2,264
Chips
0
That's actually an interesting idea that you came up with Tim. I never even considered checking back the turn. I guess I've just trained myself to always bet the flop and turn with TPTK and hope that I don't get check-raised. Do the merits of checking back the turn outweigh the potential loss of value?
Depends on the opponent. If it's a decent reg / thinking player, then I'm more likely to check the turn back and calling the river (or betting if checked to). If it's a fish, then I'm way more likely to just bet-bet-bet.

It also depends on the board. I'm less likely to do it with AJ on a Jxxx board than with AK, because I potentially lose way more equity with AJ if a Q or K rivers.
 
Top